Just filed.... Car offers in the mail?

[jeb]

Ansoil use to be an network marketing company - don't know if they still are or not.

[outsidetool]

TONS of people use Amsoil in NASCAR... way more than you think. Problem is, Amsoil doesn't sponsor them. I spoke with someone who has done a lot of work with NASCAR in the past and he said about 85% of them use Amsoil either as the oil or grease or gear lube.

All additives are a scam. They change the chemistry of the oil. I used to use Duralube, STP and all that stuff... then I found an article how the FTC went after all of those people.

Here's a good article on why you should not use aftermarket additives with references to the FTC.

Funny thing is, all of the oils that you use cost more money and protect less. You still haven't convinced me that what you're using is any better than Amsoil.

I've made a case about why this oil is better, yet none of you can show any proof that yours is any better. There's not facts at all behind anything you guys say while I can find references all over the net that can be disputed in any court room showing that Amsoil is better and can be proven over and over when putting the oil on any ASTM machine.

Strangely in all this, I don't see any case made at all--I see a bunch of hyperbole from the manufacturer and dealers perhaps of Amsoil relayed to us all by you, DM. What I want is for you to cite for me/us, an actual study, sponsored and performed by an independant lab/research firm, showing that Amsoil is as magical as you say. And by cite, I mean with data allowing me to pull up the info myself, view it myself, and see there research method and data--in other words, REALLY make a case for Amsoil--not just climb on the wagon with it 'cause it 'sounds good to you.'

[debtmonster]

Strangely in all this, I don't see any case made at all--I see a bunch of hyperbole from the manufacturer and dealers perhaps of Amsoil relayed to us all by you, DM. What I want is for you to cite for me/us, an actual study, sponsored and performed by an independant lab/research firm, showing that Amsoil is as magical as you say. And by cite, I mean with data allowing me to pull up the info myself, view it myself, and see there research method and data--in other words, REALLY make a case for Amsoil--not just climb on the wagon with it 'cause it 'sounds good to you.'

How do you expect that independent company to be paid? Do you think people just go and spend a fortune on ASTM machines to test the oils for nothing? You're out of your tree if you think that somebody is going to do all that work for free.

This is really a waste of my time. Go talk to one of those dealers on the web sites and ask them to furnish information.

Here is a comparison to Mobil 1

Now you can see why I don't want to be a dealer. People are so brainwashed.

What kind of study do you need to do the math?

100,000 miles of driving = 33 oil changes with your oil
100,000 miles of driving with my oil = 4 to 6 changes

I don't think there's any rocket science there. Simple math...

33 x $25 bucks = $825 for your oil changes
6 x $50 = $300 for mine.

Why should we jump on YOUR WAGON? Why don't you show me proof that your oil is better. Let's all stop on focusing on Amsoil for a minute here. Show me proof that your oil is superior to Amsoil. And I don't want testimonies... I want cold hard facts from ASTM results that can be duplicated in a lab.

[outsidetool]

Sorry DM, I respectfully disagree. Having seen all this about Amsoil, I was interested. Unfortunately, though I may be very bad at handling my money, I'm also a trained researcher. I thrive on seeing substantiated claims; preferrably one's with solid, impartial data. I've looked very carefully at Amsoil's website. They do actually provide some data on their site. But, if you read the information carefully, you quickly see some 'bait and switch' going on, at the very least. There is, in fact, some test information on Amsoil's site comparing their product to Mobil 1. Unfortunately, they do not say who actually conducted the testing; the inference is that they did their own tests; also, they give no infacto depth to the testing parameters which they compared--in other words, for those of us not blessed with a PhD in lubricant technology, the 5 parameters they compare may mean nothing at all in the big scheme of motor oil (in fact, my few minutes of research so far suggests that at least a few of the aspects the compared are rather meaningless). And regardless, we still from this don't have a comparative test done by an outside, impartial entity. Furthermore, on the testing for Amsoil compared to the industry standards, which WERE conducted independently, there is strangely no direct comparison with AMSOIL to like-product items. Yes, Amsoil meets all the industry standards--but no data is given as to where Amsoil falls in comparison to other synthetic motor oils for the same tests. It is, in fact, concerning to me that they instead bring up "conventional motor oil" to compare their results to. Well, that's like comparing apples to oranges: suddenly, it seems Amsoil wants us to forget that 'conventional' refers to any old motor oil, not synthetic. Thus, it appears that Amsoil is actually avoiding a comparison of their synthetic oil performance against other producers synthetics for the purposes of the industry standard testing.
Now don't get me wrong DM; I'm ALL FOR saving money on oil changes, and have long not believed the bull from the 'status quo' regarding changing oil every 3k miles. But, I also know the world is full of crapola--and I have no reason to believe that Amsoil's crapola is any better than, say Mobil 1's crapola about their products. They all tend to play games and shift facts and testing results in to their favor to market their product(s). Reading and viewing claims with a critical eye is in the best interest of us all; I do find if a bit ironic that I ask for hard testing facts, DM, and you can only throw that right back at me. At least at this point i've actually read, critically, the testing info on Amsoil's website, and have found inconsistencies with the impartiality and comparison equality: thus, I would refer you to amsoils site, under the 'testing' info. Please feel free to indicate to me anything you find inconsistent with my claims.

[debtmonster]

Once again, let's supposed you were using Amsoil your whole life and then all of a sudden you tried to convince me to use your oil. All you have is fancy commercials. Amsoil has way more technical info than any competitor.

[outsidetool]

Once again, let's supposed you were using Amsoil your whole life and then all of a sudden you tried to convince me to use your oil. All you have is fancy commercials. Amsoil has way more technical info than any competitor.

I know I'm fighting a losing battle here; not so much because I'm wanting to change your mind about Amsoil, I'm just trying to get you to see the light regarding what is real and what is slanted. Your statement regarding Amsoil "has way more technical info than any competitor," is silly. All the other oil companies have info available--go to their sites, put "testing" or "test data" in their 'search' box on the website. Those big corps spend huge amounts on testing and data capture. They just don't put there's out there on the front of their websites and slant it to get people's attention: they don't have to; Amsoil does have to to get some name recognition.
In the big reality--all the synthetics now are pretty even in performance. And, while with pretty well all the synthetics you could push your oil changes to 25k, there's plenty of other studies showing that you still need to change your oil filter somewhere between 5-15,000 miles; the oils may be fine to 25k, but those filters still get guped up may not be as efficient at catching metal shavings, etc. So keep on usin' your Amsoil--heck, I may try it too--but I don't think at this point it's any better than many other synthetics out there.
.

[debtmonster]

Once again, you're not reading everything. You're picking and choosing what you want to read. If you use their EAO filters, they are made and guaranteed to last 25,000 miles right along with the oils. I don't know why you are so against this company. Why can't you simply just use the oil instead of trying to shoot holes in what works?

If me and everyone I know do once per year oil changes, I don't see why you simply can't copy what we are doing and do the same thing.

If you're using other oils and filters, they are not made to last 25,000 miles. That's why you have to change them. If the oil and filters were blowing up engines, don't you think that it would ruin the reputation of the company? I read a thing some place where a Ford van went over 700,000 miles doing the 25,000 mile oil changes and it ran fine. Don't you think if the oil and filters were not designed to last that long, they would not bother with a guarantee on it? They would have lawsuits galore if engines were blowing up on people.

"but I don't think at this point it's any better than many other synthetics out there."
Once again, WHERE IS YOUR PROOF of this statement? If it's not better than the other synthetics, then you will furnish proof of ASTM results proving that it's better.

Here I am showing proof that Amsoil is the best value for the dollar, yet you can just giving me your opinion without any facts behind it that it is.

http://www.synthetic-oil-tech.com/MC%20White%20paper-g2156.pdf

Mobil 1 is supposed to be a good oil. Proof that Amsoil is better:

http://www.synthetic-oil-tech.com/d.cgi/1351081/amsoil_vs_mobil1.htm

Another example:
If Red Line oil is so good, why does Amsoil have a lower wear scar in the ASTM test?

http://www.synthetic-motor-oil-change-and-filters.com/amsoil_articles/amsoil-vs-redline-oil/

Another example:
If Pennzoil is better, then why does this study show that Amsoil beats it with dyno testing and everything behind it?

http://www.synthetic-motor-oil-change-and-filters.com/amsoil_articles/oil-comparison-on-the-dynometer/

Why is it that you sit there and give stupid opinions with no facts behind them?

"In the big reality--all the synthetics now are pretty even in performance."

I just proved with cold hard facts that they are not.

"the oils may be fine to 25k, but those filters still get guped up may not be as efficient at catching metal shavings, "
If that was true, then why are there so many people going 500,000 to 900,000+ miles TROUBLE-FREE?

Yeah, funny how this guy is getting "guped up filters" and went 409,000 miles on the same oil.

I'm done wasting my time about this. I've already proven that I am right and you are wrong. So please don't post any more about this. I don't get any money from talking about this product, so stop wasting any more of my time. I just wanted to help some people and prove my point and then you try to shoot holes in my posts without merit.

The whole point is, people on here are TRYING TO SAVE MONEY. And when you buy Amsoil, it's like getting EIGHT OIL CHANGES IN A BOTTLE (or ELEVEN if you use the 0W30 stuff they sell, but you need to use 2 EAO filters for that oil.)

Here's another tip... if you have old cell phones around the house that you've been collecting, instead of throwing them away, this company may pay you for them as they recycle cell phones. Check out:

http://www.cellforcash.com/

They had an article about them on MSN a few days ago.

Good day and good luck with the phones and the oil. May all of you save money with it!

Peace

[dogbone33]

OMG! You people have too much time on your hands..... LOL

[debtmonster]

OMG! You people have too much time on your hands..... LOL

Of course! We are UNEMPLOYED! I sit here all day and night. I have no money for gas to go anywhere. Living here is like being under house arrest. There's nothing to do other than watch TV or surf the net. When I get another day job again, I'll be too busy.

[outsidetool]

DM, you're still picking and choosing; just like Amsoil's website does. (note that your links all take me to Amsoil's website). No doubt that Amsoil does appear to be a pretty good synthetic oil. After viewing your info, I found other sites (such as cycle racer, et.) that did their own tests and found Amsoil very good--at least equal to Mobil 1 and/or Mobil Mx4T. But we still have no context for any of this--how important is a better flashpoint for ANY oil? In the wear protection test, amsoil and mobil 1 are the same. Again, i don't think that either of us have a PhD in lubrication technology/chemistry; I'm sure not pretending to anyway. I can only look up and read the testing data i can find, including what you have sent me links to. What I see is marketing at its finest. You actually have moved me to see that Amsoil is in the 'upper tier' of oils; I'd have no problem using it in my cars or motorcycle based on the data I've seen. I don't think it's special enough to search it out specifically--if I'm going to do an oil change and see it on the shelf, I'd grab some. If not, I'm probably going to go with Mobil 1. But still--I'd like to see some REAL studies (academic quality) that tell me the things that seem to be missing from ALL these others: what is the TRUE significance of and correlation between the various tests and standards. Since I DO work, I'll have to let you have the last word. Since you've already declared yourself 'victorious' in this little oil debate it seems worthless for me to do much more. I'll just lick my wounds and wonder how on earth I've survived in the academic research world.

[jeb]

OK Outside - may I take advantage of your research time, please?

I have used Pennzoil synthetic in my car since the first change - what is the top rated one and where does Pennzoil stand?

And one thing people don't know about is that there may be dozens of brands of a product but few actually manufactures of the product.

I have been in several plants where a product was made and all that changed as it went from start to shipping is the name on the package - one major paint company plant packages under some 7 different names, all at different price levels.

Tks - jb

[debtmonster]

I have used Pennzoil synthetic in my car since the first change - what is the top rated one and where does Pennzoil stand?

See how they compare Pennzoil Platinum on here.

When it came to the ASTM D-4742 File Oxygen Uptake test (ability to resist heat and oxygen breakdown), the Amsoil was superior to Pennzoil. Amsoil's was rated at 500 while the Pennzoil was only 164.

They came in 2nd on the test for the evaporation list to Amsoil.

For the cold temperature startup, Amsoil was able to flow down to -58F while Pennzoil's oil turned sold it -34.5F.

The Pennzoil also had a higher wear scar to Amsoil's on the Four-Ball Wear test.

You can read more about it on that link.

This is my logic in looking at it... Yeah, they may all be good oils, but if Amsoil is better and lasts longer, then why bother with those other oils?

Any of those other oils that you pick over Amsoil are not going to perform as good and they are not going to last as long. Why buy 2nd, 3rd, 4th, 5th, or 6th best when you can have #1 for a lower price? It makes no sense.

For example (hypothetical here), if you went to a car lot and saw a new Porsche 911 or Corvette for for $15,000 or a some Mazda or Toyota sports car for $17,000, why would you buy the Mazda or Toyota when you could have the Porsche or Corvette for much less?

Not saying that the Mazda or Toyota is junk... I am just saying that if you want the top dog, with Amsoil you have your cake and eat it, too.

The reason being is that I can do up to 8 oil changes for what one of those other oils has to be changed one time.

Let's say my car took 6 quarts of oil. That's 6 quarts to go 25,000 miles.

Now for me to not use Amsoil and switch to some other oil and change the oil every 3,000 miles, now I have to use 48 quarts of oil to go the same distance and spend time on 8 different days running off to get an oil change. Why would you want to do that for? If the Amsoil is going to work better than the other oils, increase your gas mileage and give you all of the convenience, I don't see any reason to use those other oils mentioned.

Why would I want to use 48 quarts instead of 6? See my point? There's clearly no advantage to using those other oils. That's one less responsibility taken off my worries. And for some of us who have a wife who doesn't pay attention to when the last oil change was done, THIS OIL IS A GODSEND!!! I spoke with one guy who said his wife once went 10,000 miles over since she never paid attention and it totally gummed up the inside of the engine.

Suggesting for someone to use another oil other than Amsoil is like saying, "Hey, you have it too easy. You need to add more responsibility to your life and waste more money and time at the quick lube or mechanic. You're not wasting enough money. You should be spending $200+ on oil changes over that 25,000 miles instead of $60 on Amsoil."

#1 You're not going to convince me to switch to some cheapie oil that decreases me gas mileage
#2 You're not going to convince me to switch to an oil that protects less (as you saw on that comparison chart)
#3 You're not going to make me waste several extra trips to the quick lube or auto parts store to buy all that oil.

Those are the facts. Maybe the other oils are okay, but you still cannot deny that they all cost more money than what I am paying now. And that was the whole purpose. It's like people get jealous and don't like my success or something. Why argue the point trying to defend those other oils? It's a moot point. I just told you they cost more money in extra frequent oil changes. Why waste the money for that? Those oils are designed to make the quick lube and autoparts store have FOOT TRAFFIC. More money in their pocket. Less in yours. NO THANK YOU. I am broke and cannot afford all that.

Now I've made my point. Now you all know. Please stop badgering me about this. If you want the oil, go to one of those web sites some place and get one of those dealers to help you otherwise, keep using what you're using and keep throwing money away.

Good day.