The emotions of all this bankruptcy syuff

[jeb]

I'd still buy you a beer and spend some time enjoying life with you!

You're on! - jb

[OhioFiler]

He is (rightly so) talking about programs put in place after WW2.

You are thinking the '30s.

Can you list a couple government programs that have been successful? I did mention welfare was a disaster.

Thanks!

[GWBcasualty]

Can you list a couple government programs that have been successful? I did mention welfare was a disaster.

Thanks!

There are many successful govt programs which are successful and we take for granted.

I am not going to go in a political discussion with you, I have been voting for a long time and I voted for both parties depending on issues/people/my maturity/etc... it doesn't seem the case with you.

Welfare was a disaster? Compared to what? Compared to having people dying of hunger in the streets like Africa it was not a failure... it all depends on the spin.

I think you are missing the big picture and the point that Jeb was making, the point is that we need "checks and balances"... like he said communism and socialism have proven that they don't function... capitalism, when left unchecked, has proven that it doesn't work either.

The goal of big Corps and CEOs is to make as much money as possible and screw the people... for a while it works, but at the end they screw more than they benefit you. Think Walmart... buy a bike made in China for $20 and think you got a deal, but you will be paying through the nose for the $$ missing from that price tag. You will be paying at the pump, you will be paying because of lost jobs, you will be paying because of the waste (who repairs a $20 bike? Let's just buy another one).

When you let the wolves run wild you get bitten. I hope the pendulum doesn't swing too much on the other side, but it is what it is... The past 8 years will be remembered as the "rape of our Country".

[OhioFiler]

There are many successful govt programs which are successful and we take for granted.

I am not going to go in a political discussion with you, I have been voting for a long time and I voted for both parties depending on issues/people/my maturity/etc... it doesn't seem the case with you.

Welfare was a disaster? Compared to what? Compared to having people dying of hunger in the streets like Africa it was not a failure... it all depends on the spin.

I think you are missing the big picture and the point that Jeb was making, the point is that we need "checks and balances"... like he said communism and socialism have proven that they don't function... capitalism, when left unchecked, has proven that it doesn't work either.

The goal of big Corps and CEOs is to make as much money as possible and screw the people... for a while it works, but at the end they screw more than they benefit you. Think Walmart... buy a bike made in China for $20 and think you got a deal, but you will be paying through the nose for the $$ missing from that price tag. You will be paying at the pump, you will be paying because of lost jobs, you will be paying because of the waste (who repairs a $20 bike? Let's just buy another one).

When you let the wolves run wild you get bitten. I hope the pendulum doesn't swing too much on the other side, but it is what it is... The past 8 years will be remembered as the "rape of our Country".

Why would BIG corporations and CEO's want to "screw the people" who they depend on as customers? This concept is flawed. If I screw my customers intentionally, I will surely end up out of business.

Wal-Mart has made more goods available to more people and controlled inflation almost single-handedly over the last 2 decades. Wal-Mart is a success story. I wish I had invested in them a few decades ago!

Welfare created a nanny state mentality where single mothers were rewarded for producing more offspring. The concepts of family and fatherhood were made obsolete. We were told if we ended welfare we'd put millions out on the street because they couldn't find jobs. Well it was essentially ended in 1996 and amazingly they weren't forced out into the streets by the millions. Most just went and got jobs.

I don't judge people by their politics. None of this is posted with any malice. We just see life differently. I can accept you as you are.

[GWBcasualty]

Why would BIG corporations and CEO's want to "screw the people" who they depend on as customers?

I am sorry if my prose fails to penetrate the surface... as per the "Capitalism for dummies" handbook BIG corps and CEO will use the human resources (employees and consumers) to the fullest and that is NOT a bad thing.

When left run wild, to the "fullest unchecked by regulatory agencies" is NOT a good thing... and when things turn, well than it really is "screw you" time and at that point I guess is a good thing that there is a place where people can go collect their unemployment checks.

I accept you too, but I will end discussing as we are just polluting the forum

[jeb]

Why would BIG corporations and CEO's want to "screw the people" who they depend on as customers? This concept is flawed. If I screw my customers intentionally, I will surely end up out of business. - Ohio

Because big corps and CEO's have only one single thing in mind - the bottom line. And right now, today, this week, this quarter - to heck with next quarter. Everything is short term now. Didn't use to be that way - until CEO's started to be brought in to "turn a company around."

Corp raiders get the backing of someone with money, make a run on a company, take it over, spin off all the assets and cut employees to the bone and then bail out and do it all over again. Look at what happen to, first, Texas Air Corp then Continental, then Frontier, then People Express.

While in BK with Continental they became the largest airline in the world.

CEO's no longer are paid to run a company for the long haul but to push the stock up in the short term.

Wal-Mart has made more goods available to more people and controlled inflation almost single-handedly over the last 2 decades. Wal-Mart is a success story. I wish I had invested in them a few decades ago! - Ohio

And Wal-Mart has put more small business out of business than any company in history. Whole business areas of small towns have disappeared.

Welfare created a nanny state mentality where single mothers were rewarded for producing more offspring. The concepts of family and fatherhood were made obsolete. - Ohio

Unfortunately, this is true BUT it is a very, very small part of the overall welfare bugdet.

It is an old saw of the conservative right to roll this out against welfare every time they can but welfare has done some wonderful things for people - a point totally overlooked.

We had a mix of capitalism and oversite - socialism - for many years in this country and, again, we built the greatest middle class in history. Starting with Reagan, it has been slowly dismantled and we can all see the results.

[CatsInTrouble]

I'm a product of the 80s welfare system.

I'd say it was a success. My mother was on welfare with three children in her early 20s, used it to feed us while she finished college, and now, two decades later, we've all finished college and hold normal careers, as does my mom.

Despite my bankruptcy, which is all consumer credit and likely to be forgotten about by this time next year, I feel pretty darned successful and pretty darned thankful for the welfare state.

[fltoo]

Great story. Welfare did nothing but provide your mom with help when needed. She did the rest. I would say that you are a product of a great mother, not welfare.

[jeb]

There is no question but that there is a lot of fraud in the welfare system - but that comes from lack of oversite, something that far, far too many government programs have, ref the banking mess we now have.

With even a small amount of oversite this would never have happened.

But the programs do a lot of good as well.

Everyone in this country and, indeed, the world should give thanks that we have some programs in place to help people out during this time of economic disaster, unlike what was there during the 1930's.

We are showing some 8% or so of un-employment - those drawing benefits - but that does not take into account of all the people that have run through the benefits and no longer show in the numbers.

This time, it will not be easy but it will be far easier that the '30's. - jb

[nervousss]

I have experienced with my BK process:

Happiness
Nervousness
Anxiety
Depression
Worthlessness
Excitement
Nausea
Fear
Elation
Thankfulness
Hope

Now that the worst part is over, it's all warm fuzzies. The end is near.

Be an open book, prepare more than you need to, it really will be okay.

[OhioFiler]

I'm a product of the 80s welfare system.

I'd say it was a success. My mother was on welfare with three children in her early 20s, used it to feed us while she finished college, and now, two decades later, we've all finished college and hold normal careers, as does my mom.

Despite my bankruptcy, which is all consumer credit and likely to be forgotten about by this time next year, I feel pretty darned successful and pretty darned thankful for the welfare state.

Your mother used the system for what it was intended. She is the exception, not the rule. Congratulations on you and your family's success!

[jeb]

Your mother used the system for what it was intended. She is the exception, not the rule. Congratulations on you and your family's success!

I disagree - she is the rule. All the highly shown "failures" by those pushing their own political agenda are the exception.

By cutting the staff to the bare bones so they don't have a possibility of doing their jobs, they are able to generate opposition to the programs.

Then they can toot their, "government can't do it - let's turn it over to the private sector." BS and pay back those that bought their votes. - jb

[RainMoM]

I myself haven't filed Bk as of yet.. My husband and i are planning to do so in the next two months.. this will give me time to gather more info on this matter.. but i feel like I have failed my two children, I'm a only child and my own mother walked out on me when i was 3 months old, I was rasied by my grandparents, and I always said when i was a child , when i grow up, I want to be able to provide for my kids, and give them a happy place to call home.. Well now were loosing our home and even tho i don't show my emotions on the outside, i tend to keep everything in side me, which is not always good.. I just hope someday we can buy a new home for our family.. that i can find peace within me again.. .. I'm truly happy that i found this site.. the storys i read touch my heart, and knowing that I too am not alone, makes me able to make it threw the day ! Sorry i just had to vent

[wonkettegirl]

Your mother used the system for what it was intended. She is the exception, not the rule. Congratulations on you and your family's success!

I think that IS the rule. Studies have shown that most people use it for a time, then go on to not need it anymore. I have an anecdotal account from my own family, too. My sister relied on welfare while she went back to school and got a teaching degree to support herself and her two young daughters following divorce. Not only did she get welfare money for housing, she used food stamps and subsidized daycare. What a welfare queen! If it hadn't been for welfare, she would never have been able to go back to school and get education for a job that lifted her and her daughters into the middle class.

[OhioFiler]

I think that IS the rule. Studies have shown that most people use it for a time, then go on to not need it anymore. I have an anecdotal account from my own family, too. My sister relied on welfare while she went back to school and got a teaching degree to support herself and her two young daughters following divorce. Not only did she get welfare money for housing, she used food stamps and subsidized daycare. What a welfare queen! If it hadn't been for welfare, she would never have been able to go back to school and get education for a job that lifted her and her daughters into the middle class.

The program was drastically cut in 1996 not because od success stories like your sister but because of the entitlement crowd who decided to live on welfare. If everyone had used it as your ister the program would have survived as it was.