spending tax refund

[eddiep]

Could you take your mom (or another loved one in need) grocery shopping?
Or stock up on pasta, canned food, cereal, frozen food, asprin, laundry detergent, shampoo, soap. Just think of all the things that wouldn't go bad but you would normally use, your grocery bill would be very low for a long time! Could you use some new clothes, get your hair cut. I have been broke for way too long.

[okiebk09]

Okie mom if yo uhave money left over why don't you go buy some clothes or shoes for your family? you can't tell me that you have enough clothes or shoes or haircuts etc. If I had $900 left I could find tons of stuff to buy that are necessities. I would stock up on dry goods at the store, as much as possible, paper towels, cleaning supplies, cereals, canned food, jucie boxes, ketchup, etc. I know you don't want to move it but it is going to be hard after you file with having to move and pay for that. I would think the less you had to spend on food while moving the better not to mention you will need lots of cleaning supplies when you move to a new place. What about a vaccuum? Washer or dryer? microwave? refrigerator? I dunno but I could think of tons of things to use $900 for.

[Trixie007]

Our bk attorney's advice has been spot on and verified numerous times when I did research here on this forum. She stated max amount in AZ exemption is $750 and can be in the form of grocery store gift cards as long as the cards are specific to grocery stores ONLY. She was specific that Costco and Sam's were not to be used. Here is a link I found that can also confirm her statement.

What Can I Keep?

In Arizona, you may take only state exemptions. You may not take the exemptions provided by federal bankruptcy laws.

Under Arizona bankruptcy laws, you may keep:

* Homestead exemption, up to $150,000
* Household furniture, furnishings and appliances, up to $4,000
* Food, fuel and provisions for the debtor's individual or family use for six months..."

Well, that sort of makes sense, because your state has a specific exemption for 6 mos worth of provisions, which apparently the Trustee's translate that to being acceptable to have up to the $750 in gift cards in your area. I wish they had that here!

[NoMoreRed]

It is hard to budget when you do not have money leftover after paying the bills.

I guess the answer is no to gift cards. Oh well

I would be careful with gift cards anyway. The way the economy is the stores can go into bankruptcy and not honor the gift cards if I remember correctly. Correct me if I'm wrong.

[OhioFiler]

It is hard to budget when you do not have money leftover after paying the bills.

I guess the answer is no to gift cards. Oh well

If you are going to have no money left over after bankruptcy to pay the bills you're going to have to make life altering changes.

[willbfree]

Our bk attorney's advice has been spot on and verified numerous times when I did research here on this forum. She stated max amount in AZ exemption is $750 and can be in the form of grocery store gift cards as long as the cards are specific to grocery stores ONLY. She was specific that Costco and Sam's were not to be used. Here is a link I found that can also confirm her statement.

What Can I Keep?

In Arizona, you may take only state exemptions. You may not take the exemptions provided by federal bankruptcy laws.

Under Arizona bankruptcy laws, you may keep:

* Homestead exemption, up to $150,000
* Household furniture, furnishings and appliances, up to $4,000
* Food, fuel and provisions for the debtor's individual or family use for six months..."

http://research.lawyers.com/Arizona/...n-Arizona.html is the link where this was found. I would encourage okiemom to contact her attorney and get a confirmation before doing anything but we will be purchasing the max $750 in gift cards and we will be declaring it at the 341. I will be happy to post on the results of this topic when we go through this stage. That way we can all learn from the process.

[okiemom2008]

Chapter 7 gives you a clean slate. It's a decision we make as individuals whether we change our spending habits or not after we get the clean plate.

I've been working on a budget for us post-bankruptcy that we will FORCE ourselves to follow. We'll be able to move expenses around within the budget (i.e. buy less food and buy more clothes).

Any surplus at the end of the month will go directly to savings or investments.

It is hard to budget when you do not have money leftover after paying the bills.

I guess the answer is no to gift cards. Oh well

[OhioFiler]

I hate how they make it IMPOSSIBLE to get ahead after bankruptcy. It is almost like they want you to be back doing the same thing in 10 years.

Chapter 7 gives you a clean slate. It's a decision we make as individuals whether we change our spending habits or not after we get the clean plate.

I've been working on a budget for us post-bankruptcy that we will FORCE ourselves to follow. We'll be able to move expenses around within the budget (i.e. buy less food and buy more clothes).

Any surplus at the end of the month will go directly to savings or investments.

[okiemom2008]

I hate how they make it IMPOSSIBLE to get ahead after bankruptcy. It is almost like they want you to be back doing the same thing in 10 years.

[Trixie007]

Geez...I don't even have any gift cards. I wasn't trying to instruct anyone or confuse anyone as to what to do or not do with gift cards...I was genuinely curious. I'm STILL curious and I don't really see how asking this on a bankruptcy forum is trying to perpetuate bankruptcy fraud. One poster even mentioned Here: that their attorney said it was OK to buy $750 worth of non-redeemable gift cards. If that is an option that is OK to do depending on your states exemptions, why can't we talk about it?

Ok, my response was a little strong, sorry. I was looking at this thread, and it was starting to sound a little like a how-to for withholding assets from your BK, because let's face it, a spendable gift card is an asset... whoever posted that about the $750 gift cards being ok is being given advice that the majority don't hear from attorney's. I would think that's not the norm! I guess if we all consider the spirit of the law (declaring all assets) then this is a no-brainer.

[OhioFiler]

I would not invest in gift cards.

If it's presumed abuse for buying $1,000's of gift cards why wouldn't the trustee complain if you had $750? I see no difference.

I see them as an asset. I'm sure the trustee does as well.

[2Bshinyandnew]

In our eyes there may be a difference, but in the Trustee's eyes, there is not. Never mind what it says on the card - the holder of the card can redeem it for the value of the card by purchasing products, it is an asset on hand when you file. Many people on here have said that their lawyers (who have real world experience with this) have told them this is a no-no and that the trustee does view gift cards as an asset. If purchasing thousands of dollars in the gift cards would be obvious fraud, why wouldn't purchasing $50 worth?

The trustee could handle this any way they deem necessary, such as making you pay cash to them for the value of the card...

Obviously, everyone filing is going to have to decide what to do for themselves as they get closer to filing, but on this forum the rules are clear about not giving advice on how to perpetuate fraud in BK - and posting mental run-arounds here about why this would be okay for someone to do could be confusing to people who are trying to figure out what is okay and what is not.

Geez...I don't even have any gift cards. I wasn't trying to instruct anyone or confuse anyone as to what to do or not do with gift cards...I was genuinely curious. I'm STILL curious and I don't really see how asking this on a bankruptcy forum is trying to perpetuate bankruptcy fraud. One poster even mentioned Here:

Okiemom2008 you need to check with someone in your own state but in AZ our bk attorney says we can spend our tax refund on $750 debit cards from a grocery store to save for the bk process. Your state may allow more or less but the answer is yes you can. Our attorney also stated that Costco and Sam's were out. They have too much nonfood inventory and to stick to true grocery stores like Kroger's, Fry's, Albertson's, etc. She also said we could take a vacation with that tax refund money (yeah right) but it's a legit use of the tax refund if you can't find anything else. Just make sure and keep all receipts to prove where the money was spent.

that their attorney said it was OK to buy $750 worth of non-redeemable gift cards. If that is an option that is OK to do depending on your states exemptions, why can't we talk about it?

[Over our heads]

I bet half of the gift cards up for sale on Ebay are from US trustees! While they won't get face value for them, they can get pretty darn close.

[Trixie007]

We have a Honey Baked Ham gift certificate for $50 that we've held for a couple years. I think I'll list it as an asset to show the trustee how thorough and honest we are!

[OhioFiler]

In our eyes there may be a difference, but in the Trustee's eyes, there is not. Never mind what it says on the card - the holder of the card can redeem it for the value of the card by purchasing products, it is an asset on hand when you file. Many people on here have said that their lawyers (who have real world experience with this) have told them this is a no-no and that the trustee does view gift cards as an asset. If purchasing thousands of dollars in the gift cards would be obvious fraud, why wouldn't purchasing $50 worth?

The trustee could handle this any way they deem necessary, such as making you pay cash to them for the value of the card...

Obviously, everyone filing is going to have to decide what to do for themselves as they get closer to filing, but on this forum the rules are clear about not giving advice on how to perpetuate fraud in BK - and posting mental run-arounds here about why this would be okay for someone to do could be confusing to people who are trying to figure out what is okay and what is not.

We have a Honey Baked Ham gift certificate for $50 that we've held for a couple years. I think I'll list it as an asset to show the trustee how thorough and honest we are!