Does consult show "intent" for BK?

[overthedebt]

I'm set for a consult next week. However, after reading/learning more from these forums, this might not be the right time to do this. Does the fact that I'm meeting with an atty show that I've thought about BK and hence show "fraud" if I continue to use my credit cards past this point? I'm not talking about going out and charging up my cards on luxury items or trips. I mean more so keeping them to survive on for food, gas, medical until my income is more stable.

Thanks to all here. Because of these forums I've begun to see a light at the end of the tunnel. Now if only I can find a way to mitigate the feeling of shame and regret over my financial situation.

[optimistic1]

Code Section 523(a)(2) also includes another test to determine the dischargeability of credit card debt. The following debts are non-dischargeable:

money, property, services, or an extension, renewal, or refinancing of credit, to the extent obtained by—

(A) false pretenses, a false representation, or actual fraud, other than a statement respecting the debtor’s or an insider’s financial condition;
(B) use of a statement in writing—

(i) that is materially false;
(ii) respecting the debtor’s or an insider’s financial condition;
(iii) on which the creditor to whom the debtor is liable for such money, property, services, or credit reasonably relied; and
(iv) that the debtor caused to be made or published with intent to deceive;


So, what the Code provides is that non-essential credit card debts to any one creditor totaling $500 or more and incurred within 90 days prior to filing are presumed non-dischargeable. And credit card debts of any amount,incurred at any time prior to filing may be deemed non-dischargeable if the creditor can prove that the debt was incurred under false pretenses (i.e., that the consumer used the card when he knew or should have known that he would be unable to pay back the debt).

The 90 day/$500 debt to any one creditor is a fairly easy argument for the credit card companies - those are hard to defend. The false pretenses/false representation issue is more difficult for a credit card company to win because they have to prove what you knew or should have known.


I would say that you are taking a risk, but who would even know that you consulted an attorney besides yourself? When you are ready to file just hire a different attorney.

[whipster1]

I have heard that every once in a while the trustee will ask when you first consulted with a BK attorney...but usually when there are weird transactions such as changing titles to cars or land.

Personally I had to buy gas the day I filed and used a card...I had no choice, so I decided if the card wants me to repay them the 40 dollars I will gladly do so

[Pizza]

Take this with a grain of salt, but you may as well wait. If you've used credit cards for anything expensive/non-essential within the last 90 days, the attorney can't do much for you except advise you to wait, so why waste your consultation?

[Mary123]

>> Now if only I can find a way to mitigate the feeling of shame and regret over my financial situation.

Do you think the banks that got billions and billions of bail out dollars are feeling any shame and regret?
At this point, don't waste anymore energy on feeling shameful. You are definately not alone. Focus on getting the information you need and dealing with the situation.

[whipster1]

Just remember that the creditor has to prove non-dischargeability....that is very expensive for them to do.

[Mary123]

>> If you've used credit cards for anything expensive/non-essential within the last 90 days . . . .

If the CC that I used was one that is NOT going to be included in the BK, does that still matter for the 90 day period?

I charged $700.00 last week, . . . but the items are essenital to me (nutritional supplements that I use instead of food for morning and lunch).
There was a sale of 50% off so I bought a lot, like I usually do.

Looking back, I should have used the damn debit card but wasn't thinking.

[whipster1]

Can't pick and choose the debts to include. They ALL go in. The 700 might be a problem so keep the receipts handy.

[Chowder]

I'm set for a consult next week. However, after reading/learning more from these forums, this might not be the right time to do this. Does the fact that I'm meeting with an atty show that I've thought about BK and hence show "fraud" if I continue to use my credit cards past this point?

I believe it's when you retain an Attorney.

I consulted with mine over a year before I filed. He gave me a boat load of good advice that helped me decide if I needed to file at all, and if so, how to best prepare for it.

[overthedebt]

Take this with a grain of salt, but you may as well wait. If you've used credit cards for anything expensive/non-essential within the last 90 days, the attorney can't do much for you except advise you to wait, so why waste your consultation?

Thank you, that's what I was thinking. I've used my CC for the grocery store, car repair and rx's as recent as today and I certainly don't want to waste my free consult time.

>> Now if only I can find a way to mitigate the feeling of shame and regret over my financial situation.

Do you think the banks that got billions and billions of bail out dollars are feeling any shame and regret?
At this point, don't waste anymore energy on feeling shameful. You are definately not alone. Focus on getting the information you need and dealing with the situation.

Thank you Mary. I'm trying. I've had excellent credit for 20+ years and it's difficult to avoid feeling like I'm a deadbeat failure for my current financial mess. :/

[keepmine]

The only way the timing of a bk consultation is a problem is, if you have the consult and then charge up a storm and the creditor objects . The first question from the creditor in an AP will be when did you first consult with a lawyer regarding bk.

[Rahaton]

Funny thing is this is the third time we have looked into it, over about 7 years. The first two times we convinced ourselves to slog on through. This time losing a job forced us to do it. Hope they don't count the first time we talked to a lawyer ;-)