What do you do with all the "extra" money?

[LSUTiger32]

The UST is not drilling you. He's reviewing your submission behind the scenes. He has much more than 30 minutes to review your petition and can file an objection pretty much at his leisure.

Yeah DebtMonster, I mean they do their "investigative" work behind the scenes before the 341. I think they pretty much have their minds made up whether or not they think there may be abuse going on which leads them into their lines of questioning. It's not like the 341 is the first time they have looked at your file.

[OhioFiler]

If they had 30+ minutes to drill you at the 341, I think you guys would be right. But being that they have to rush everyone out to get to the next person, they really don't have time for that.

Just think, you would not have gone all that far unless you were serious about your finances. He sees your tax returns and your last 6 months of bank statements. He knows if you have money or not. The figures don't lie. You're either banking it or you're in poverty.

In today's economy, you know you need like $50,000+ per year just to be able to eat decently. The days of renting nice apartments for $500/mo. in this area are LONG GONE. Everything is doubled in price, so now you need double to live on to have the same lifestyle as 20 years ago.

The UST is not drilling you. He's reviewing your submission behind the scenes. He has much more than 30 minutes to review your petition and can file an objection pretty much at his leisure.

[debtmonster]

If they had 30+ minutes to drill you at the 341, I think you guys would be right. But being that they have to rush everyone out to get to the next person, they really don't have time for that.

Just think, you would not have gone all that far unless you were serious about your finances. He sees your tax returns and your last 6 months of bank statements. He knows if you have money or not. The figures don't lie. You're either banking it or you're in poverty.

In today's economy, you know you need like $50,000+ per year just to be able to eat decently. The days of renting nice apartments for $500/mo. in this area are LONG GONE. Everything is doubled in price, so now you need double to live on to have the same lifestyle as 20 years ago.

[pcn]

I'd imagine it has to do with several things including, reviewing your records and knowing how to read people. People that act too confident, or too nervous. I think most people think they are better liars than they really are, and those who are trained can pick up on it.

[MrSmithster]

to much money at the end of the month is not a good thing with a chapter 7, and with a 13, the tt will take a large percentage, at least from my understanding. i hope im wrong

[LSUTiger32]

I am not sure what you are asking him to give you an answer to. I am just being honest here, I surely have no personal vendetta against you.

I don't think any of us know exactly what they do on the inside, but surely there are methods they use to weed out the ones that really look fishy. Of course they do random audits, but I think what OhioFiler stated is part of what they do. They instill the fear into people that it is NOT worth it to even attempt it, unless you really enjoy prison food.

Do some of the people slip through the cracks by fabricating their financial situation and benefitting from that.....sure! However, a lot of speeders don't get caught either. That's the way the ball bounces sometimes.

[debtmonster]

Do you think these trustees and court officials are stupid? Don't you think every scam imaginable has already been tried on these people? The trigger is they can usually tell when someone is full of crap.

You tell me what the trigger is for NOT LYING under oath. For me, it's called integrity. Anyone who supports the concept of committing fraud or lying under oath and publicly posts such support doesn't belong on a forum like this.

Nobody is supporting any lying. Now quit dodging the question and give me examples of how trustees and court officials actually catch you. Stop giving generalities. I am not advocating for anyone to do anything illegal. I am just asking for a technique on how they get a job done.

It's me asking, "How do they catch a person in a high speed pursuit?"

And you're answering, "That's bad and you can't do that."

A correct answer would be something like, "They follow them closely, touch bumpers and nudge them to the left or right and cause them to spin out."

Now that's the kind of technical answer I am looking for. You are putting words in my mouth and distorting my questions trying to make me look bad. Drop this personal vendetta. It's getting old already.

[OhioFiler]

And what is to trigger you getting caught? You always seem to omit those facts out of your statements. How convenient.

Do you think these trustees and court officials are stupid? Don't you think every scam imaginable has already been tried on these people? The trigger is they can usually tell when someone is full of crap.

You tell me what the trigger is for NOT LYING under oath. For me, it's called integrity. Anyone who supports the concept of committing fraud or lying under oath and publicly posts such support doesn't belong on a forum like this.

[debtmonster]

Well for starters the admissions office at the local community college isn't headed by a lifetime appointed federal judge. If you get caught cheating with the school you merely end up having to go to school on the internet. Try cheating a federal judge by creating false bank statements and see if you can still get your bankruptcy.

And what is to trigger you getting caught? You always seem to omit those facts out of your statements. How convenient.

[OhioFiler]

Yes, I was honest with all of my income and everything. Everything was there in black and white. We made almost $80,000 in 2007 and then in 2008 my tax return shows us making a gross household income of $33,000. I don't see what the big deal is if we were to buy a car right now before our discharge. I mean, how would they ever know if we did or not? To me, the gov't doesn't seem all that smart. If they were, they wouldn't be trusting "me" to bring in my own bank statements. They would simply check with all banks that I do business with and get all of that data electronically. When you owe money to the IRS, they seem to have no trouble in knowing when you have money and when to take it. I don't see why a bankruptcy court would have any issues. It boggles my mind how gov't agencies ask you for the paperwork instead of simply contacting the other agencies themselves and getting it. Why do they trust a person to do it? For all they know, you could have doctored the documents to your liking. They don't ask for them sealed or anything.

Look when you go to a college and they want your previous school records. They won't simply take them. They only accept them "sealed" from a previous school and never let them go through your hands. I don't understand why the gov't is not like this in all aspects. They make it so easy for themselves to be manipulated.

Anyway, as I have 2 cars in my possession right at the very moment, I don't need to go out and buy another this very second, but if I found a spectacular deal and wanted one right now, I don't see why there should be any risk of me getting into trouble. So far nobody has given me the cold facts about why I should not buy a car before discharge and how I could get into trouble.

As soon as somebody could give examples of somebody who got into trouble, we would also have something to learn here.

Well for starters the admissions office at the local community college isn't headed by a lifetime appointed federal judge. If you get caught cheating with the school you merely end up having to go to school on the internet. Try cheating a federal judge by creating false bank statements and see if you can still get your bankruptcy.

[booboo]

Do not see any problem with that. I would however wait until your 10 days post 341 to do it. That way you will be sure the Trustee does not file any objection to your petition and you are simply waiting for your 60 days to elapse.

BooBoo

[debtmonster]

Yes, I was honest with all of my income and everything. Everything was there in black and white. We made almost $80,000 in 2007 and then in 2008 my tax return shows us making a gross household income of $33,000. I don't see what the big deal is if we were to buy a car right now before our discharge. I mean, how would they ever know if we did or not? To me, the gov't doesn't seem all that smart. If they were, they wouldn't be trusting "me" to bring in my own bank statements. They would simply check with all banks that I do business with and get all of that data electronically. When you owe money to the IRS, they seem to have no trouble in knowing when you have money and when to take it. I don't see why a bankruptcy court would have any issues. It boggles my mind how gov't agencies ask you for the paperwork instead of simply contacting the other agencies themselves and getting it. Why do they trust a person to do it? For all they know, you could have doctored the documents to your liking. They don't ask for them sealed or anything.

Look when you go to a college and they want your previous school records. They won't simply take them. They only accept them "sealed" from a previous school and never let them go through your hands. I don't understand why the gov't is not like this in all aspects. They make it so easy for themselves to be manipulated.

Anyway, as I have 2 cars in my possession right at the very moment, I don't need to go out and buy another this very second, but if I found a spectacular deal and wanted one right now, I don't see why there should be any risk of me getting into trouble. So far nobody has given me the cold facts about why I should not buy a car before discharge and how I could get into trouble.

As soon as somebody could give examples of somebody who got into trouble, we would also have something to learn here.

[booboo]

Monster,

I think that they get into trouble because of their schedule J. The trustee looks at these schedules and does have the right to schedule a closer look by not concluding the meeting and calls for another 341 on the matter. An audit would be the other thing.

If the Trustee thinks that you are being dishonest, he may call for your bank statements up to the meeting and I assume he may do many things, including forcing you into a 13. If they prove you hid something and he thinks fraud in your filing, but if he can not prove it, this would be a way to "punish you".

I too can not understand why some here say to wait. Remember if you are being above board and honest and have met the law as stated, you income etc is from the date of filing and back 6 months.

We too, he asked a few questions and that was it. Like I said, he had our tax returns and bank statements to filing date and at the conclusion of the meeting, he just gave them back to us.

However, he did not say have a good day, good luck or anything like that...he was very serious, just called out in the room to see if there were any creditors present, hearing none, the only thing he said was "Hearing Concluded".

BooBoo

[LSUTiger32]

LOL. He received quite a prison sentence for that!

Yeah.....and he deserves it. Typical politician that gets to stay in office too long and decides it's about him now and not his constituents.

[debtmonster]

My trustee didn't ask for a single thing other than our driver's license and social security card. With the past 2 years of tax returns, they could see a nearly 50% income drop from one year to the next. Maybe because my income was on the downstroke, the bankruptcy made sense and they just push it through to get it done.

So if you could make all the money you want pretty much the day after you file or the day after your 341 meeting, then why do people keep posting scary messages such as getting forced into a Chapter 13 and all that stuff? As long as you qualified for a Chapter 7 before you filed, what is the big deal later on?

I am still not understanding the logic of many posts I see on here of how one day you're broke and qualify for a Chapter 7. So then you file and your 341 goes through. And now you get a job for $100k/yr. Why should anything change as long as you qualified prior to filing? If you were borderline 7 to 13 from the get-go, that's one thing. But if you run into money after the 341, isn't that no big deal?