after 341 hearing can you file on more creditors

[music12]

i agree with amy, and i think everyone agrees, that you are supposed to list all your creditors. in fact, you are not supposed to omit any creditor just because you intend to pay them - that includes your medical bill, amy!

the question those cases ask is what happens if in spite of the clear instructions to list all creditors, a debtor omits a creditor anyway. this question arises all the time because people either forget (most cases) or because people intentionally don't list someone. that's where the different appellate circuits have different opinions.

[Amy26]

Well I did what my lawyer told me to do....

[AngelinaCat]

We filed 12/28/2007. In August of that year I had a nasty fall and broke my right arm and left knee. At the time of filing I was still under medical care and physical therapy--the whole nine yards. We listed those creditors but could not fill in the amounts owed, because they were works still in progress with the insurance company doing it's thing. I made my co-pays as normal. Also C.O.B.R.A. was kicking in at the same time, as my FT job ended on 9/30/2007. So the attorney put in $1.00 as a placeholder in each spot with the understanding that the full amounts owed would be substituted once they were determined. And they were.

I would love to be able to pay these people back, particularly the orthoepedic group because they gave me excellent care. But it isn't possible. I have not been able to replace the FT job. The orthoepedic group did try to have their claim boosted ahead in priority above that of the IRS. The trustee did not allow that.

We were discharged 8/13/2008, and all creditors were duly notified. The hospital and the orthoepedic group still tried to appeal their claims after that, which the trustee disallowed. The orthoepedic group then sent a 'modified' bill to me, to which I replied with a copy of the discharge order. Some months after that, they sent their claim to a collection agency which in turned billed us. I again replied with a copy of the discharge order, along with a letter detailinng which part of the BK Law they were breaking, and that we would send copies of all correspondence and billing to the trustee if they did not cease and desist. That was a couple of months ago......

I know this is a little off-topic, but I thought I would take the opportunity to tell this medical tale...

[AngelinaCatHub]

I forgot to list a Lowes card and a Radio Shack card. I used the Radio Shack card after I filed and never even thought of listing it, but I intended to pay it back anyway, it was less than a thousand. I went to Lowes to make a payment and NO ACCOUNT. I went to Radio Shack that same day, and, NO ACCOUNT. I could not have paid them if I wanted to. I did not list them but they showed on my accounting of creditors. The only thing I could think of is they are both sponsored by Citi and I listed some card, I believe Sears that was a Citi card and all of them were combined. I failed to list a late phone bill of 500 bucks. I sent my dishcharge paper back and that was a year ago. I still think this is a fine line of district to district determination as in my discharge it states in exceptions of items discharged that "SOME" creditors not listed on the forms.

That statement of SOME is very ambiguous and I am still not convinced that if you forget (in honest good faith) a small CC that it would not be discharged under the idea of the "New Start". However if a debt is PURPOSELY left off, that would fall under fraud anyway. I'm going to research this further but I feel it is still up to the local Judge if the creditor should pop up later. 'Hub

[LSUTiger32]

I know everyone is trying to help, so hopefully there is no hard feelings. The bottom line is that if you forgot to add someone and you still spend the money and do it if it makes sense (i.e. Don't spend $200 to add a $50 debt). While you may be able to go around it, the easy thing to do is just amend and include.

[LuciluS]

This topic seems to pop up and is debated about every 3-4 months on this forum.

http://www.bkforum.com/showthread.php?t=38910&highlight=add+creditor

In the above post, I documented a certain well known Attorney's opinion & also the !st Circuit Courts Appeal. Long discussion on the above thread.

I'm going to say it one more time:

Wouldn't you rather pay the $26 Now to amend your Bankruptcy Or take the chance you have a Creditor who persists after your BK is closed and pay $269 to re-open your case? To me it's a Slam Dunk Decision - pay the $26 to amend and have the Peace of Mind your BK petition is Accurate.

We are filing in September and still do not have a lot of the medical bills (i.e. ambulance, Specialist etc) from hubby's week long stay in the hospital in April.
His insurance company took over 3 months to pay the hospital as I have the EOB from insurance company, but have not received a Bill from the hospital.That amount of $1,695.12 will be included in our Creditor Matrix.
If we do not have them when completing our Creditor Matrix, You can bet your sweet baby they will be listed as $ value unknown or maybe like AngelinaCat recommended list as a $1 value.

I'm a very cautious person in this recession, no longer risking anything. I don't trust any Creditor after reading this forum, especially the Collections
Section where creditor's are noted as being brutal as the recession has/is hurting them too. Don't believe there is anyone who will object to my comments in this paragraph LOL!

Luci

[HHM]

Best Practice

If you find out about a creditor before the BK is discharged, amend and add.

If you find out about a creditor after the BK is discharged, mail them a copy of your discharge order and 9 times out of 10, the creditor will go away.

I do think Music's initial comment about the debt being discharged anyway is misleading advice as it gives the wrong impression about what should be done. In any event, there is no need to get bogged down in the legal minutia of the issue. The issue is more of a practical challenge...if a creditor wasn't listed, they have a prima facia grounds to continue to pursue you for the debt, so it is always better to add a creditor before discharge to avoid the practical hassle of dealing with a post-discharge creditors that wasn't listed on the BK petition.

[music12]

Well I did what my lawyer told me to do....

ah, the plot thickens: not all lawyers make you list all creditors. my head hurts.

[woeisme]

While I agree with MSlawyer that it is best to add creditors that may have been missed (did that myself when a medical bill showed up that I was unaware of at the time of filing) I have to say, his comments that the LAW is the LAW and not opinion is just hilarious! I don't think I believe that poster is even a real lawyer after such a naive statement. Everyone knows that the law is interpreted ten thousand different ways, and especially in bankruptcy, despite all the "laws" there are totally different practices in every district. I'd prefer there be a set of rules that were the rules that everyone followed, so at least you'd know exactly what was required, but it is so "fuzzy" that it keeps the lawyers in business if you ask me, otherwise anyone could read the NOLO books and do BK themselves, but since so much is based on local customs instead of exact letter of the law, you need someone more experienced with the local trustees than experiences with the written laws.

[123ABC]

This is a question I specifically discussed with my lawyer. I was told that in Ohio every debt prior to my date of filing, unless listed as exempt or reaffirmed, wether specifically named in the bk or not, is discharged. Nobody from before my date of filing can come back and demand payment or report to the credit bureaus.

now that being said I still tried to get all the ones I could remember on there, including everything showing on my credit report.