Providian Credit Card

[FoolAndHisMoney]

The courts are sympathetic if you lost your job and charged pretty much reasonable expenses only such as food, a new suit for a new job interview and gasoline or utilities. If this is all you spent it on and it was a year ago it shouldn't raise any flags.

They frown upon living the life of Riley on the backs of creditors with no ability to pay.

Did you take the advance out before or after the job loss?

[bkfiler]

all afterwards. i lived on that money as well as my own IRA, stocks bought earlier and savings. i traded stocks for two years or less with teh intention of making money and paying them back.

i paid on time all the time for those entire 2 years or more.

whose Riely? is it a book?

i've been told by every attorney i consulted with that its no problem. guess i will see. since i kept paying them even after i kept losing my money with stocks it shows intention on my part.

[FoolAndHisMoney]

You should be fine then especially if the atty's said so.

One other note why most cc companies don't dispute very much is that they would have to pay the debtor's legal fees if they sued a debtor and lost.

They pretty much have to know and prove to the court that a debtor charged with no intentions on paying it back and unless it was on the eve of bk it's pretty impossible to prove. The judge however has a list of items they look at such as multiple charges usually for "toys" such as electronic devices purchased on the same day. A year no one usually bothers.

Riley is a character that Jackie Gleason played in an old TV show called "The life of Riley". I haven't been around then since I'm only 32, but my grandfather always uses that expression. LOL

[bkfiler]

"You should be fine then especially if the atty's said so."

i'm not ready to accept that postion yet until i see it work. attorneys make mistakes all the time and fluff it off as oh well we tried.

with respect to the list the judge has that he looks for; where do they look at what i used the cards for? does he look at my statements?

[FoolAndHisMoney]

"You should be fine then especially if the atty's said so."

i'm not ready to accept that postion yet until i see it work. attorneys make mistakes all the time and fluff it off as oh well we tried.

with respect to the list the judge has that he looks for; where do they look at what i used the cards for? does he look at my statements?

I see your point. Don't count chickens before they hatch.


The judge only looks if the creditor disputes it and you would have to go to an adversary proceeding (mini lawsuit filed within bk court). Even if the creditor would dispute it since it's outside the 60 to 90 day presumtion period they would want to negotiate with you and have you pay back a portion of it like 50%. Again this is very rare for over 12 months. I guess it's possible, but very unlikely you will go through this.

[bkfiler]

its the only thing im worried about.

whats funny is that i never new i could bankrupt credit cards. always thought i had to pay them and could only bankrupt taxes, student loans and houses. lol

only until the commercials recently told me did i realize i could. go figure.

anyways, the reason im so worried is because even though everyone says they cant fight it and win is i dont understand why a time limit matters.

it makes no logical sense to me yet. 'intent to not pay' doesnt change over time. it remains the same and has the same events surrounding until the day i die. facts stay the same.

and if you read, as i have recently now that i filed, you will find the rules as interpreted by the judges since congress never made it clear.

they have one or two that go against me i guess if at all (im playing devils advocate so i can understand what i am going through)

the main one is something about using credit without the ability to pay which i payed for 2+ years so maybe that kills that.

i will fight like hell and defend myself because i know i intended to pay and did pay for over 2 years (with their own money as well as mine).

after that i didnt file for another 2 years so it cant possibly look like i didnt intend to pay IF that means only that you filed a bk.

[Minnymouth]

To a FoolAndHisMoney,

If you think the Court is "sympathic" - YOUR ONLY FOOLING YOURSELF!!!

bkfiler,

If all this took place over 2 years ago, and you made payments throughout the 2 years (even using their money and yours)....... You should be okay.....

Normally the Court will not go back that far. Really depends on the Trustee, but I doubt that he will pursue the issue.....

Now if it had all just happended recently - YOU WOULD BE DEAD MEAT IN COURT........ it would be considered FRAUD!

Just a thought,

Minny

[FoolAndHisMoney]

To a FoolAndHisMoney,

If you think the Court is "sympathic" - YOUR ONLY FOOLING YOURSELF!!!

bkfiler,

If all this took place over 2 years ago, and you made payments throughout the 2 years (even using their money and yours)....... You should be okay.....

Normally the Court will not go back that far. Really depends on the Trustee, but I doubt that he will pursue the issue.....

Now if it had all just happended recently - YOU WOULD BE DEAD MEAT IN COURT........ it would be considered FRAUD!

Just a thought,

Minny

I figured they would be "sympathic" towards an event beyond the control of the debtor such as unemployment and charging "some" reasonable living expenses. Major charges is a NO NO and of course they wouldn't like this.

[Minnymouth]

If you think they are going to be "sympathic' because of things out of your control - DON'T BET YOUR LIFE ON IT!!! YOU'LL LOOSE!
The Court deals in "facts" and "facts only", BELEIVE ME, I KNOW FROM EXPERIENCE!! I learned the "hard way"!!!

As for your situation, you will probably be okay. They overlook charges when it comes to living expenses, as long as they are not in excess and you have receipts.

Your sounds like you will be okay,

Minny

[FoolAndHisMoney]

Yeah Minny, I read your story and are sorry to hear. Hopefully it will work out.

Bkfiler, no one knows for sure. We're all pretty much guessing since it's very rare that anything is disputed. This thread has most of us interested since this is a huge fear we all have so we are interested too in the outcome. I guess time will be the best answer. Keep us all posted and good luck!