Oh boy... Time's up

[Midiman]

Well I think we finally hit the point of no return. Last night one of our animals was injured and I took a $1,000 cash advance from my BofA CC as a deposit for veterinarian surgery later tomorrow. The bill estimate is closer to 2k but they said we could make payments.... with what? Just glad it was available.

We had been thinking about BK 7 prior to this. We even contacted an attorney in July just to talk. Based on the 36k we owe and our income, we qualify easily. To be honest, I may need to take another advance, but we already owe BofA $9,000.

1. How soon can we file?
2. BofA holds our mortgage and checking accounts... should I continue to pay the minimum on the account up until filling?
3. Should I find a new bank to pay bills through? (Union, US, ?)

We owe Chase a lot more (24k) and just started paying "below minimum" amounts just to keep collections at bay. The phone calls are starting. I'd appreciate some sound advise. Thanks.

(in California)

[bkmaggster]

Well I think we finally hit the point of no return. Last night one of our animals was injured and I took a $1,000 cash advance from my BofA CC as a deposit for veterinarian surgery later tomorrow. The bill estimate is closer to 2k but they said we could make payments.... with what? Just glad it was available.

We had been thinking about BK 7 prior to this. We even contacted an attorney in July just to talk. Based on the 36k we owe and our income, we qualify easily. To be honest, I may need to take another advance, but we already owe BofA $9,000.

1. How soon can we file?
2. BofA holds our mortgage and checking accounts... should I continue to pay the minimum on the account up until filling?
3. Should I find a new bank to pay bills through? (Union, US, ?)

We owe Chase a lot more (24k) and just started paying "below minimum" amounts just to keep collections at bay. The phone calls are starting. I'd appreciate some sound advise. Thanks.

(in California)

Stop taking advances!!

You need to wait at least 90 days from any advance before filing. Pay at least the minimums on the CC you took the advance from. Otherwise you may be looking at an accusation of fraud.

I hope your pet is doing better and heals quickly.

One thing you will want to do as soon as you file is start an emergency fund because you won't have cards to fall back on any more.

[killinstinct]

You also need to make sure you bank at a place you do NOT owe money too. Stay away from Wells Fargo, they will "freeze" your account when you file BK.

maggster is right. Any cash advance over $750 within 70 days of filing is presumed non-dischargable. You will have to pay it back. Also any 'luxury' goods totalling $500 or more to any particular creditor within 90 days of filing will be non-dischargable. Ideally, you should be charge-free six months, but at least three.

Then stop paying everybody and start saving...it will likely be six months before legal action is taken on the behalf of the CC companies...

[aljohnson007]

Open a new acccount and stop all auto payments, direct deposits, etc. Then completely close all accounts with BofA. If you don't, BofA will do some very bad thnigs.

[CCsAreEvil]

You also need to make sure you bank at a place you do NOT owe money too. Stay away from Wells Fargo, they will "freeze" your account when you file BK.

I keep reading how not to use Wells Fargo. Unfortunately, WF was pretty much the only major bank I did NOT owe money to. So, I opened a checking with them.

It's been 2 weeks since I filed for Ch7. When do they actually freeze your accounts? I only had maybe $100 in there the day I filed but am still able to use my checking account without any issues.

[Amy26]

I have wachovia who is owned by Wells Fargo and they did not freeze my accounts or anything....but I wonder if its because I'm under the wachovia umbrella. Have you tried going to a smaller bank? There are sooooo many banks I can't imagine you owe money to all of them. Or maybe I'm speaking out of turn.

[Midiman]

Thanks, and thank you bkmaggster for the concern. A close call but he's improving. This shows the importance of emergency funds... definitely a wake-up call. A few questions...

I know it would be wise to avoid another advance but honestly I don't know where we're going to come up with the extra money. Would we be in the clear if we filed in January of next year? That would put us at roughly 120 days. This is not a luxury purchase... we're trying to save our dog and they offered a cash discount.

From talking with the BK attorney, a $200 deposit just starts the proceedings. They won't file until we come up with the full payment. Is that standard? If so that gives us time to build that fund.

Also, just to clarify, a creditor can't pull funds from your checking account without permission or judge order right? Chase called and wanted to setup half of their payment today. We didn't fall for it.

We'll probably go with Union Bank once we get close. We've never had an account there. I've read that making drastic changes to accounts related to debt signals red flags... not sure I want to pull everything just yet.

Thanks again for your help.

[killinstinct]

I keep reading how not to use Wells Fargo. Unfortunately, WF was pretty much the only major bank I did NOT owe money to. So, I opened a checking with them.

It's been 2 weeks since I filed for Ch7. When do they actually freeze your accounts? I only had maybe $100 in there the day I filed but am still able to use my checking account without any issues.

Sounds like you're ok. I was told they freeze your account when you file.

[pcn]

If you know you are going to file, and you continue to make cash advances, why would that not be fraud? Borrowing money you have no intention of paying back seems like a bad idea, at the least, even ignoring any moral implications.

[killinstinct]

Thanks, and thank you bkmaggster for the concern. A close call but he's improving. This shows the importance of emergency funds... definitely a wake-up call. A few questions...

I know it would be wise to avoid another advance but honestly I don't know where we're going to come up with the extra money. Would we be in the clear if we filed in January of next year? That would put us at roughly 120 days. This is not a luxury purchase... we're trying to save our dog and they offered a cash discount.

From talking with the BK attorney, a $200 deposit just starts the proceedings. They won't file until we come up with the full payment. Is that standard? If so that gives us time to build that fund.

Also, just to clarify, a creditor can't pull funds from your checking account without permission or judge order right? Chase called and wanted to setup half of their payment today. We didn't fall for it.

We'll probably go with Union Bank once we get close. We've never had an account there. I've read that making drastic changes to accounts related to debt signals red flags... not sure I want to pull everything just yet.

Thanks again for your help.

120 days is well outside the window. I would just pay mins if possible on that debt until then. The worst that can happen in any scenario outside the 70/90 day window is the creditor starts an adversary proceeding (they're still willing to negotiate) and you still owe the debt after the end of your BK.

Without your permission or a court order, no one can touch your money. Exceptions are the federal govt. for taxes owed, and some banks will take money from your account if you have an account with them and owe them money (read cross-collateralization).

There should be no red flags about moving your money. This is common practice and you can legitimately say you are trying to build a new and better relationship with a new financial institution.

[Calthius]

Just a question. If you don't owe any $$ to WF how would they know that you filed bankruptcy? If all you had with them were either checking or savings accounts. I had to list our checking and savings amounts but the bank wasn't listed on the schedule of creditors nor was the bank name asked for where the checking and savings were located?

[bkmaggster]

Thanks, and thank you bkmaggster for the concern. A close call but he's improving. This shows the importance of emergency funds... definitely a wake-up call. A few questions...

I know it would be wise to avoid another advance but honestly I don't know where we're going to come up with the extra money. Would we be in the clear if we filed in January of next year? That would put us at roughly 120 days. This is not a luxury purchase... we're trying to save our dog and they offered a cash discount.

From talking with the BK attorney, a $200 deposit just starts the proceedings. They won't file until we come up with the full payment. Is that standard? If so that gives us time to build that fund.

Also, just to clarify, a creditor can't pull funds from your checking account without permission or judge order right? Chase called and wanted to setup half of their payment today. We didn't fall for it.

We'll probably go with Union Bank once we get close. We've never had an account there. I've read that making drastic changes to accounts related to debt signals red flags... not sure I want to pull everything just yet.

Thanks again for your help.

I know it's not a luxury purchase, but taking a cash advance when you know you are insolvent is considered bk fraud and the debt will not be discharged and could cause other problems with your case.

The BK attorney has to wait until they receive full payment before you file because once filed you are under the stay and they cannot collect the rest.

No a creditor cannot pull funds out of your account without your permission UNLESS you have a cross-collateralization clause in your account paperwork. Which many don't know they have.

Do a forum search on each of these terms: "cash advance", "cross-collateralization", and "wells fargo" to get a feel for what we are all talking about.

[Calthius]

My attorney's terms were. 50% down 25% upon filing and 25% a week before the 341 meeting.

[Midiman]

Well I guess we'll find another way. I don't have the complete bill but it may be lower than we expect. We don't want to jeopardize this. We do intend to continue minimum payments to BofA... that was our conscious decision from the start. At least the funds were there. I don't like increasing the debt but things happen... and not always with good timing. Putting down the animal just wasn't an option. Morally that's where our mindset was at the time. Hopefully a judge will side with us.

Thanks for the info. I think January is a good month to shoot for, and I'll keep you posted.

[banca rotta]

Stop using credit.

Make some minimum payments for a few months and wait 6 months if possible, not 90 days. $1000 may not be worth it for them to dispute but play it safe.


Do lots of bk related homework. Good luck.