New Here - Assets Question for Ch. 7 liquidation

[AngelinaCat]

Locked at Original Poster's request.

[lrprn]

I've been draining my IRA to keep up with my minimums. If I'm contemplating Ch 7, I guess I've been doing the wrong thing then? Have yet to consult an atty but month by month goes by and it's getting clearer and clearer I'm not going to make it out of this debt. :/

If there's even a chance you are going to have to file, then you need to immediately STOP taking money from your IRA!!

If you think you are going to have to file (and the fact you are currently draining your IRA to make monthly cc and other payments is a good sign you need to seriously consider it), then it's time to set up 3-4 free initial consultations with experienced bk lawyers in your area and find out where you stand.

If after meeting with the lawyers, you are sure you need to file, then that's when you stop making payments on your non-secured debts and start setting it aside to pay your chosen lawyer to file your bankruptcy.

[Mom2two]

Well we met with the lawyer and decided to start the proceedings. We didn't have a choice. DH only worked 3 out of 6 days last week and I don't have enough to pay the bills.

How did you all pay your lawyers? They won't file until they're paid in full. I guess we'll just have to use what we would have paid on the minimum payments and put it toward the payment. It may take a month or two.

BTW the lawyer was impressed with how much I knew and the questions I asked. Thanks everyone.

[TBLTZ]

Wow I'm totally confused now, lol. I don't have any sheeps or goats or cows but if I'm allowed I want them. LOL.

My car is a 1999 and worth $1700 for trade according to KBB and I still owe $1400 on it. How sad is that?

DH's is worth $3500 and we own it.

According to the median income chart we're $12000 less than what is stated for a family of 4. According to the Means quick test on the link provided we are $1000 a month under what the median is.

It said something about we'd pass because we're under the median income and abuse would not be presumed?

If we did a Ch. 13, which is still a possibility, we'd only be able to pay $100 a month toward the ch. 13. Although I didn't include all the info because some of it confused me.

Sounds like a lock for chapter7 to me.

[Mom2two]

Wow I'm totally confused now, lol. I don't have any sheeps or goats or cows but if I'm allowed I want them. LOL.

My car is a 1999 and worth $1700 for trade according to KBB and I still owe $1400 on it. How sad is that?

DH's is worth $3500 and we own it.

According to the median income chart we're $12000 less than what is stated for a family of 4. According to the Means quick test on the link provided we are $1000 a month under what the median is.

It said something about we'd pass because we're under the median income and abuse would not be presumed?

If we did a Ch. 13, which is still a possibility, we'd only be able to pay $100 a month toward the ch. 13. Although I didn't include all the info because some of it confused me.

[Mom2two]

I was able to get ahold of the office where we were going to try for our second consultation and they said they'd see us tonight. Keeping fingers crossed.

Strange thing though, they said NOT to bring any of this paperwork in, not for the initial consultation. They found it strange that it was requested in the first place.

[Mom2two]

Thank you all. You're my lifeline right now. BTW I have two children and I still owe $1500 on the oldest and most beat up car. DH's job got cancelled at the last minute today and I had today off for medical tests so we had a chance to talk calmly. He apologized to me and I to him and we sat and communicated. I had him all ready for this meeting tonight, we had all the paperwork the lawyer wanted us to bring for the free consultation ( I spent hours and pretty much drained my ink cartridge getting it all together) and we both were in an open and positive frame of mind. I just got a call from the lawyers office to say he had to cancel. They said I could reschedule with another lawyer in their firm for next week. I told them NO I wanted the one I had been talking to. I told them I'd have to go with someone else then. They said they'll call back. Hm.. maybe he reads here and got scared? Well, if so you've lost our business. Now my emotions are all over the place again. I'm not able to reschedule due to medical tests I'm having over the next two weeks (another stressor depending on the outcome).

[overthedebt]

No, it can't be taken. Retirement accounts like 401Ks are completely protected when you file bankruptcy.

I've been draining my IRA to keep up with my minimums. If I'm contemplating Ch 7, I guess I've been doing the wrong thing then? Have yet to consult an atty but month by month goes by and it's getting clearer and clearer I'm not going to make it out of this debt. :/

[lrprn]

Would this be listed as well? Would this be taken from us if we filed?

No, it can't be taken. Retirement accounts like 401Ks are completely protected when you file bankruptcy.

Is there a list or form someplace that I can download so I can get an idea of what is considered an asset so I can figure out what we have as assets?

First, here's a link to the allowed MA bankruptcy exemptions - http://www.thebankruptcysite.org/exe...achusetts.html . Look at the different exemptions and see what each one protects. That should give you an idea of where you might have issues if you have assets or other belongings that can't be completely protected by your exemptions when you file.

The place I see you might have trouble (and I know you don't want to hear this) is with your motor vehicle exemptions. You can only protect $700 of equity and you are trying to cover at least three cars with that measly amount. It really helps that your cars are old, but since they are paid for, you have to count the current market value of each against just $700 Be sure to discuss this with the bankruptcy lawyers you meet with.

And you are absolutely right - it's best to set up free initial consultations with at least 3-4 experienced bk lawyers in your area. Bankruptcy law requires a lot of interpretation, and different lawyers may have different ideas about what can be done and what can't. It's important to educate yourself about bankruptcy so you know enough to spot questionable answers and ask intelligent questions.

Here's the link to the current state median incomes by family size - http://www.usdoj.gov/ust/eo/bapcpa/2...come_table.htm . You mentioned a son, so assuming you are a family of three, combine your and your husband's gross income from all sources for the last six full calendar months and multiply it by 2.

MA's median income for a family of three is $83,104. If your family's gross income total calculates to be above $83,104, then you can't assume you can file Ch 7 just from looking at your family's median income. You'll have to complete the rest of the Means Test and Schedules to see how much (if any) disposable income shows up.

If your family size is actually larger than three, then you can see on the table how you and your husband's gross income compares to the higher median income figures for a larger family size in MA.

Here's are good online electronic Means Test forms to fill in to see how you might come out on the required Means Test - https://www.legalconsumer.com/bankru...tate.php?st=MA . Remember that filling out these forms isn't easy - there are a lot of interpretations about what goes where and what the maximums allowed are in your local bk court that your lawyer will know but may seem confusing to you.

If you want to try filling out the actual B22A Means Test form that your lawyer would file if you are able to qualify for Ch 7, here's a link to that - http://www.uscourts.gov/rules/BK_For..._022A_1208.pdf . The same thing goes for filling in the forms - it's easy to misinterpret what needs to go where on the forms.

Hang in there. In our situation my husband was the money manager and he also kept how bad things had gotten to himself until it was far too late to do anything but file Ch 13. I had a very difficult time when I finally figured out we had no choice but to file. I don't think we spoke hardly a civil word to each other for months. But I did come around , and now we're going strong working together to manage our money. Just wish we had done it that way a long time ago, but better now than never! Don't give up, but also don't allow your husband wanting to pretend everything is ok stop you from doing what you need to. Go keep that appointment and set up the others so you find out what is going to be best for your family going forward.

[eddiep]

Oh, as if I didn't say enough already
Let hubby know if he decides to stop paying and "take his chances", he may very well end up losing the car. With that much debt (not being judgmental, I had $160k in credit card debt!) you most likely will be sued by at least one of your creditors. Once they get a judgement they will go after your assets, including the car, they could garnish your wages and basically force you to repay them by what ever means you have.

[eddiep]

Sorry, sounds like you have a lot of stress right now, and hubby is making it worse! This is the worst part, I promise it will get easier. I know you must be scared, we all were when we were just starting this process, and this includes hubby. Keep a positive outlook, it is contagious. Go to www.legalconsumer.com you will be able to find the exemption amounts for your state. We are actually neighbors, I'm from NH! In MA you can take the federal exemptions option which is very generous, which is what we did. We were able to save EVERYTHING. Nothing by its self was worth alot but we saved three cars, one harley davidson, one truck, one boat, one dirtbike, $20k from a pending personal injury lawsuit, one 4 wheeler and our home and everything in it. You can find the value of your cars from www.kbb.com and you may have to go to www.nada.com to find the value of the restoration project. Once you figure out what you can exempt and what the resale value is of your assets you will feel more positive about this and so will hubby. The resale value of the house stuff... computers, tv, clothes, furniture etc can be found at www.salvationarmy.com or www.goodwill.com

[Mom2two]

I just remembered he has a retirement thing through his employer. It's done through a company that does stocks. Everyone has stocks and this will end up as their retirement when the time comes. With the stocks going down it went down by thousands but it's climbing again. I'm not sure how much he has in there right now. Would this be listed as well? Would this be taken from us if we filed?

Is there a list or form someplace that I can download so I can get an idea of what is considered an asset so I can figure out what we have as assets?

I'm sure the cat isn't considered an asset although they can have him if they want. He needs surgery and we can't possibly afford that right now.

[music12]

women are often more emotionally strong than men. he is probably feeling like a failure and it makes him feel better to accuse you, because deep down he knows it's at least as much his fault as yours. he can't handle it. he shouldn't be accusing you, that's for sure. he may need some time and/or psychological help.

[Mom2two]

I've read and tried to explain to him but he's so stubborn. We have a free consultation tomorrow late afternoon but now he's signed up for work in the afternoon. He always works early morning, when there is work and is always out of work by 4 at the latest. So I reminded him of our appt. and his reply was "what, are you NOW saying you want me to NOT go to work? I'll meet you there if I can, if not, at least I get a days pay." I reminded him that I won't be able to go myself because my DS will have my car to pick his sister up at school (his car isn't working) and all this has been carefully scheduled. So he told me to cancel and make another appt. I can't win. If I have to take a bus I'll keep that appt.

I'm scheduling a second free consultation with another lawyer as well. I always think a second opinion is a good idea.

[TBLTZ]

Ok so now I don't know what to do. DH and I got into a huge fight tonight and he started throwing the past in my face. YOU YOU YOU YOU decided we would rent when we got married instead of buying a house. YOU YOU YOU decided to get pregnant the second year we were married. YOU YOU YOU decided to quit work and stay home because daycare was too expensive so we couldn't afford to buy a house. If we had a house we would have been able to refinance and get rid of our debt.

Me? We decided these things together. All of them. He wouldn't listen to me and stormed off mad. Right in front of the kids.

He forgets that together we decided not to buy a place right then but instead we were going to save. We decided to start our family, I was going to work and my SAHMother was going to watch our baby for $50 a week so we could continue to save money. My mother died just before I gave birth. Daycare for an infant was $12 more than I made a week. Together we decided I stay home. Actually if I remember correctly DH stated he refused to have a stranger raise our child. So, here we were very young with a baby and only one income. This is where our debt started .... 20 years ago. I did home daycare and when the kids were in school I worked part time. He got laid off from his job of 15 years and floundered between jobs for the next 4 or 5 years. Again we relied on credit cards to survive. If we owned a house we would have lost it years ago. We've had our heads just barely above water for almost 20 years now. I'm tired. I don't need DH pointing his finger shouting YOU YOU YOU.

Maybe we should be seeing a divorce lawyer instead of a bankruptcy lawyer.

He's so scared to death about losing this car that he said he may not go to the meeting. He will just stop paying the credit cards and take his chances. Right now we are not delinquent and have been scraping by to pay them on time. He won't even listen when I tell him the cc companies can come and take everything away that BK will protect us. He doesn't get it. He won't listen. My heart is hurting.

First. Everyone has some types of money problems. If you don't own a house and are under the median income you are a pefect chapter 7 case. You file and 90 days later you are free from credit card debit and medical bills and loans. If you only had 3 three cars you can easily claim these as your exemptions. When you file bk they can't take everything single thing you own. Most people get to keep all their stuff.

Keep reading on this board and you will get all the information that you need. Educate your self and you can explain to your husband the details. Also go see a lawyer 1st consults are free. This will make you feel better.