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Is this considered fraud...IF we filed Chap 7

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    Is this considered fraud...IF we filed Chap 7

    We own 6 rental houses. We purchased all of them within 1 year and the economy has shifted to the point that we aren't making money on them. We have 120K in credit card debt. A majority of that debt was used for repairs to the houses that we no longer can afford.

    1) If we filed bankruptcy, would we have any hangups for the number of purchases we made on our credit cards over the last couple of years?

    2) We took a vacation in November 2008 and purchased a camera on that vacation. It's a long story, but we were scammed and my credit card was charged huge fees. I tried to fight it, but then MBNA denied all the ppwork I filed. My interest rate went up to 28% and I could no longer afford the minimum payment. 2 months later, the rest of my cards up'd their rates and we had to stop paying...ALL CREDIT CARDS. I haven't made a payment since Feb 2009. I'm so worried at this point--guess I should be. But my priority was paying for my house. Do I have reason to worry about this?

    3) My parents borrowed us $5K to help get us out of a financial mess with our rentals. IN exchange, we sold them our camper (which they used a lot anyway). We sold it in April for $2500 and then never had to pay them back for money they borrowed to us ($5000). Now, I am reading that they go back a year to see if you switched titles to anyone in your family and I'm freaking out about this. We didnt PLAN to file at the time so I didn't think it was going to be an issue. Now, I'm worried that we need to try to wait a year before filing (until April 2010), so that I don't pull my parents into this mess. They don't even KNOW we are possibly filing.

    4) What happens if we want to file Chap 7? Do we still collect rent on the rental properties and then NOT pay our loan at the bank? Or is it an immediate surrender? Or do I just let them foreclose? I don't know what to do.

    5) We have 3 mortgages on our primary residence. Our total mortgages total about 185K and our house is probably worth 100K (probably not even that). Will I have to worry about losing my house if we used the equity in it to purchase the rentals? We plan to continue to pay those mortgages.

    6) We have 3 cars. 1 is my husbands (with a loan), one is mine on a lease and one is my son's (in my name) that is free and clear. Will we lose my son's car? Or can we keep it and return the lease that I have? I have to surrender it in Sept 2010 anyway.

    I am having a Phone interview on Tuesday with an attorney. I hope to know more at that point. I'm almost scared to tell him some of this. I don't know if filing Chap 7 is the best, or if we just wait and see what happens with our creditors from the ccards we havent' paid. 2 of them are asking us to dispute the debt right now. I don't know how to proceed with any of this and I've considered bankruptcy for about 4 months...I just don't want to get into more trouble or appear fraudulent if we proceed. I'm also not sure if I can trust an attorney to be honest with me about my situation or if they just want me to file so they get their money?

    Sorry for writing so much. I have no where to discuss these things and I'm a little anxious. Sorry.

    #2
    Our house is worth 200K. Sorry. I typed that wrong when I said 100K.

    Comment


      #3
      It doesn't appear you need to worry about fraud accusations based on the story you've shared.

      You need to find the Iowa exemptions you are entitled to determine what assets you may keep if you file.

      You sold the camper to your parents for $7,500. I don't see a problem there unless it was worth more than that.

      You'll feel much better after you speak with an attorney. We've all been where you are.
      Well, I did. Every one of 'em. Mostly I remember the last one. The wild finish. A guy standing on a station platform in the rain with a comical look in his face because his insides have been kicked out. -Rick

      Comment


        #4
        Originally posted by LostNFound View Post
        We own 6 rental houses. We purchased all of them within 1 year and the economy has shifted to the point that we aren't making money on them. We have 120K in credit card debt. A majority of that debt was used for repairs to the houses that we no longer can afford.

        1) If we filed bankruptcy, would we have any hangups for the number of purchases we made on our credit cards over the last couple of years?

        2) We took a vacation in November 2008 and purchased a camera on that vacation. It's a long story, but we were scammed and my credit card was charged huge fees. I tried to fight it, but then MBNA denied all the ppwork I filed. My interest rate went up to 28% and I could no longer afford the minimum payment. 2 months later, the rest of my cards up'd their rates and we had to stop paying...ALL CREDIT CARDS. I haven't made a payment since Feb 2009. I'm so worried at this point--guess I should be. But my priority was paying for my house. Do I have reason to worry about this?

        3) My parents borrowed us $5K to help get us out of a financial mess with our rentals. IN exchange, we sold them our camper (which they used a lot anyway). We sold it in April for $2500 and then never had to pay them back for money they borrowed to us ($5000). Now, I am reading that they go back a year to see if you switched titles to anyone in your family and I'm freaking out about this. We didnt PLAN to file at the time so I didn't think it was going to be an issue. Now, I'm worried that we need to try to wait a year before filing (until April 2010), so that I don't pull my parents into this mess. They don't even KNOW we are possibly filing.

        4) What happens if we want to file Chap 7? Do we still collect rent on the rental properties and then NOT pay our loan at the bank? Or is it an immediate surrender? Or do I just let them foreclose? I don't know what to do.

        5) We have 3 mortgages on our primary residence. Our total mortgages total about 185K and our house is probably worth 100K (probably not even that). Will I have to worry about losing my house if we used the equity in it to purchase the rentals? We plan to continue to pay those mortgages.

        6) We have 3 cars. 1 is my husbands (with a loan), one is mine on a lease and one is my son's (in my name) that is free and clear. Will we lose my son's car? Or can we keep it and return the lease that I have? I have to surrender it in Sept 2010 anyway.

        I am having a Phone interview on Tuesday with an attorney. I hope to know more at that point. I'm almost scared to tell him some of this. I don't know if filing Chap 7 is the best, or if we just wait and see what happens with our creditors from the ccards we havent' paid. 2 of them are asking us to dispute the debt right now. I don't know how to proceed with any of this and I've considered bankruptcy for about 4 months...I just don't want to get into more trouble or appear fraudulent if we proceed. I'm also not sure if I can trust an attorney to be honest with me about my situation or if they just want me to file so they get their money?

        Sorry for writing so much. I have no where to discuss these things and I'm a little anxious. Sorry.
        Welcome to the board. I think that after you talk to your attorney you will feel a bit less worried. There are a couple of issues that might come up but they are not deal breakers.

        1. The trustee may look into the transfer of the camper a bit, but if you have a bill of sale to your parents and can get an official appraisal of some sort as to the retail value of the camper, and that value is close to what you sold it for, you should be able to talk your way out of a "preference". It will all depend on how tough your trustee is.

        2. You may have some non-exempt assets left and may end up an asset case, but this will not affect your discharge.

        An attorney will be able to tell pretty quickly whether you are an asset case or not and how tough it will be to avoid having the trustee consider the camper as a preferential transfer.
        You can't take a picture of this. It's already gone. ~~Nate, Six Feet Under

        Comment


          #5
          Also, take the rental money. You must declare it as income. Pay your mortgage of the house you wish to own with it. Be careful though as if you reaffirm you can do this easier or that could look preferential. Don't pay debt you know you are going to give up. Nobody really likes bk, it creeps up on you until the misery, then the revelation that you are just over your ability to cure it comes to you. Your explanation is very good and if and when asked in your 341, state it as you did here. 'Hub
          If I knew it all, would I be here?? Hang in there = Retained attorney 8-06, Filed 12-28-07, Discharge 8-13-08, Finally CLOSED 11-3-09, 3-31-10 AP Dismissed, Informed by incompetent lawyer of CLOSED status, October 14, 2010.

          Comment


            #6
            So....do ALL bankruptcy attorneys KNOW what they are talking about? Will they let me know what to prepare for? Or does this trustee guy just sneak up on ya and make things difficult?
            I honestly am to the point that I don't really care about losing my snowmobiles and motorcycle. My life is so complicated and I cant deal with the stress of just trying to afford to live!
            I just don't want to be in bigger trouble if I try to file.

            Comment


              #7
              Lost - I am in IA as well and DH and I have a great lawyer. If you want to PM me with your location or district, I would be glad to share his info with you. We have a business that we closed and thought for sure the fees were going to be high - but he isn't charging us anything extra for the business and it has been a lot of extra work. We hadn't talked to him in a few days so he called last night just to check in. He has been doing BK for over 30 years. We are filing next Wed morning - I am ready to get this over with!!!! Good luck to you.

              Comment


                #8
                Originally posted by LostNFound View Post
                My life is so complicated and I cant deal with the stress of just trying to afford to live!
                All the toys don't mean a thing..........

                I've lived higher than my means before, and now I'm living lower than them. No more keeping up with the Jones' for me. It doesn't get any better than having time to spend with family because I'm not stressing over all of the complications.

                It sounds like you've learned what's important, that you want to get rid of the problems, and live a life that's within your means. Go for it. You'll never regret it.

                Good luck to you.
                All information contained in this post is for informational and amusement purposes only.
                Bankruptcy is a process, not an event.......

                Comment


                  #9
                  Originally posted by frogger View Post
                  All the toys don't mean a thing..........

                  I've lived higher than my means before, and now I'm living lower than them. No more keeping up with the Jones' for me. It doesn't get any better than having time to spend with family because I'm not stressing over all of the complications.

                  It sounds like you've learned what's important, that you want to get rid of the problems, and live a life that's within your means. Go for it. You'll never regret it.

                  Good luck to you.
                  "A truer word, never spoken"..... We have not been happier than we are now. We had many complications due to ignorance on our part and a lawyer who thought we should know what she did. Now that it is over (still waiting on close, 14 months) we spend within our means. It is still tough with just the utilities, but all those toys are junk once you get them home and get the first CC bill listing it. It is NOT YOURS until paid for. Frogger, you enjoy your new start, we are. Mrs. and 'Hub
                  If I knew it all, would I be here?? Hang in there = Retained attorney 8-06, Filed 12-28-07, Discharge 8-13-08, Finally CLOSED 11-3-09, 3-31-10 AP Dismissed, Informed by incompetent lawyer of CLOSED status, October 14, 2010.

                  Comment


                    #10
                    I think I just need to talk to a lawyer and then maybe I will feel better. I'm concerned (at this point) that I need to find a good one. I'm sure you've all felt that way. But I've been scammed more then you can imagine and I'm a little timid to take this step. We have a business (LLC) as well as personal stuff and I'd like to know my fee's upfront. The lawyer I'm talking to on Tuesday is giving me 20 min free, then it's $50 for up to an hour to talk to him. JUST TO TALK TO HIM!!! Seriously? And when I asked the fees, he said it depends on whats involved. Yea, well, I'm telling you whats involved. I own 6 rental properties and my house!!! Irritates me. I NEED to know the AMOUNT!! So then he tells me that they will put me on a payment plan. Oh goodie, just what I can afford right now. IS that BEFORE or AFTER I run to Aldi's for more Ramon Noodles?

                    Comment

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