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**StaciMM** · 12-13-2005, 08:45 PM

1. Not too late to add a creditor. That creditor would have an extended deadline for objections, though it wouldn't change the originally listed debts. To amend, you should be able to submit a new creditor schedule-just showing the forgotten debt. You might need to turn in another matrix page. Mark it as 'amended'. Check w/ the clerk to confirm how they want it!

2. By not submitting the reaffirmation to the court, it isn't valid. Unless the trustee submitted the copy you gave him. Not sure if he can submit it for you. I do understand the trustee has to sign off on a reaffirmation when you're pro se, and can refuse to do so if it presents an extreme financial burden. Even if you had submitted it, you're right that you can cancel it.

As to what to do next if you've decided to surrender the property, you don't have to contact the lender at all just yet. You are still protected by the automatic stay. That gives you a little time to make other arrangements. As for changing the statement of intentions, its not a bad idea but it may not be an issue. We changed our mind-surrendered what we'd said we would keep. Our trustee wasn't concerned as it didn't change our financial picture.

**Crazy** · 12-13-2005, 08:56 PM

Stacy That was really helpful. Thank You I get such great advice here.

I was worried and unsure how the Re-Affirmation worked. I too am not sure if the trustee can submit the Re-affirmation for me or not?

It says on the first page of the Reaffirmation Agreement:

"You may reseind (cancel) this agreement at any time before the bankruptcy court enters a discharge order or within 60 days after this agreement is filed with the court, whichever is later, by notifying the creditor that the agreement is canceled"

OK to me that doesn't tell me alot..LOL

If I had filed it...and then CANCELED it by telling the creditor...then how the HECK would the court no to include it as DISCHARGED and not re-affirmed...

THAT CONFUSES ME...LOL

Maybe if I submit the AMENDED Debtors Intention...to show surrendered on this loan...that would work?? I don't know

Any shed of light here?

**bkfiler** · 12-13-2005, 08:56 PM

sorry, i used an attorney to make sure everything went right. i can only suggest that you do the same.

what i can suggest is that no matter what, you had better make super sure that if you do not want to re-affirm after you already signed that you call all parties involved and make sure they know that so that you are all on the same page. also, check with the court and the trusttee to make sure you are not bound by it. you do not want to be locked into something by mistake.

maybe that means filing an admentment i dont know. but do whatever you have to to make sure you are protected from owning something you thought you wowuldnt.

good luck

**Crazy** · 12-13-2005, 09:01 PM

Thanks BK

Yes..I think what I am going to do..is file an amended: DEBTOR'S STATEMENT OF INTENTION...and change the loan from Re-Affirming to .... Surrendering

I am going to contact the Creditor in person and in writing after I find an apartment and get settled in...say 2 weeks...As Staci said...I am still under the Stay and they can't repo right now anyway.

What do you guys think?

It does say on the court papers:

NOTICE TO DEBTOR:
You may reseind (cancel) this agreement at anytime before the bankruptcy court enters a discharge order or within 60 days after this agreement is filed with the court, whichever is later, by notifying the creditor that the agreement is canceled.

**bkfiler** · 12-13-2005, 09:21 PM

'can do', 'want to do' and 'do do' could be all different.

the problem is getting it done so that the court knows what you want to do.

thats the part were an attorney comes in for me. so i dont know for sure. as for recinding the re-affirmation i know you can do it before you discharge. just dont know how to do it myself.

**Crazy** · 12-13-2005, 09:34 PM

BK...you crack me up..

YES..that is exactly correct, BUT I don't know if the Re-Affirmation is even in place...because it says it's not VALID..unless filed with the CLerk of the Court...Which I haven't even done yet....

My problem with an attorney in the GOD FORSAKEN SMALL TOWN we live in..is there is only 2 BK attorney's within hundreds of miles...

ALL to busy and have to much of a case load to help within this time frame I'm working with here....

I NEED A DRINK

**AAAArt** · 12-13-2005, 09:47 PM

If the re-affirmation agreement hasn't been filed, then all you have to do is contact the creditor and say that you no longer want the terms. BTW, what your "so-dalled friend" offered you was not a re-affirmation, it was a refinance disguised under the term re-affirmation so that the court would accept. A re-affirmation means that they and you agree to continue the original terms of the contract.
I would suggest that you firs contact the lender and tell them that you will only re-affirm under the original terms of the loan and the original payment amounts. If they will not accept that, you will rescind your offer and include the debt in your Bk. There's no need to wait 2 weeks. If they want to repo, they will have to file for a "relief of stay" and that should give you a month or so.
IMPORTANT...by contract, you signed that it would be valid, UNLESS you contacted them. This can be done 2 ways. Either you notify them in writing (and I would suggest registered mail-delivery confirmation) or you amend your Bk petition and send them the creditor matrix with them listed and ALSO notify them of your intent to void the agreement.
My hunch is that if you tell them that you are voiding the agreement unless it is re-written under the original terms of the loan and it will be including in your Bk unless you hear from them within 10 business days (this is why you want to do it now), that you will get a counter-offer from them. Stick to your guns re: the original contract with them. This is certainly no "friend" who would do this kind of thing to you.
I re-affirmed my car with GMAC at 0% interest and all they did was send me 2copies of the agreement to sign that the original loan/contract/payment length and interest rate were the same.
Again, what they asked you to agree to is NOT a re-affirmation. If you had an atty, I am sure that they would not advise you to sign it.
Best wishes, Art

**StaciMM** · 12-14-2005, 05:45 AM

Do you have access to Pacer? That would be a good way to check to see if the page had been filed (such as if the trustee turned it in). The idea to check w/ the clerk to make sure that you do what is needed to cancel it if it has been filed is a good idea.

Sounds like you're heading in the right direction... Thinking about the financial future of your family rather than what your banker/friend will think. Good for you!

**StaciMM** · 12-14-2005, 05:50 AM

I think part of the issue is Crazy's loan balance is $59,000 on property that is only worth $30,000. Based on the #'s ($59,000, 4 years, 12%) this would be about $1550/mo. Even at no interest, it would be about $1230/mo.

Regardless of terms, not a great deal to reaffirm on.

Originally posted by AAAArt

My hunch is that if you tell them that you are voiding the agreement unless it is re-written under the original terms of the loan and it will be including in your Bk unless you hear from them within 10 business days (this is why you want to do it now), that you will get a counter-offer from them. Stick to your guns re: the original contract with them. This is certainly no "friend" who would do this kind of thing to you.
I re-affirmed my car with GMAC at 0% interest and all they did was send me 2copies of the agreement to sign that the original loan/contract/payment length and interest rate were the same.
Again, what they asked you to agree to is NOT a re-affirmation. If you had an atty, I am sure that they would not advise you to sign it.
Best wishes, Art

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