341 last Thursday- so what happens now?

[SteveInColorado]

Sorry in advance for the looong post.
Well, 341's done!
A little background- we filed in a rush to meet the October deadline. I was still looking for ways to avoid it, and my wife kept saying we needed to. The Monday before the deadline, I looked online to see if there was any way it could still happen. Lo and behold, I found a website based IN my state (Colorado) that walked you through the process, filled out the forms for you, and then overnighted them to you for $180 if I remember right. So we filed pro se October 14. I spent all of my time researching what effect BK would have long term after discharge, but didn't research the process much and had no idea it would take this long. I'm still having trouble finding answers about what will happen between now and discharge. I recently found this site http://www.bankruptcyinformation.com/
which was pretty informative from the court's standpoint, but I still have lots of questions.

1. The trustee only seemed to care about the date we filed. She never asked if there had been any changes to our financial status, so I didn't mention the raise I received a couple weeks later (not that it's really helped anyway). We had to provide bank statements with the balance that day. Would this be "cash on hand?" When I filled out the questionnaire it was right before payday. Don't remember what I put, but it was little or none. The day I filed, however, was when direct deposit of my 2-week paycheck went in. Does any of this mean anything?
2. I own a rifle I hadn't originally listed as a possession. I kept finding conflicting lists of state exemptions, and just planned on bringing it up at the 341. She asked if either of us owned any firearms, and I told her "yes." It's an extremely undesirable model from a collector's standpoint, but it was what I chose from my grandfather's possessions. Despite its bad rep, it shoots very well for me. The trustee said firearms are NOT exempt, so while I doubt it would bring much money, if she were to seize it, would I be able to get it back or pay the value, etc.?
3. Even without making payments on stuff, we're still not quite getting by. My wife could get a job, but we've been holding off until the BK's done. I've seen a post or two where people were told it would probably be OK after their 341. So if it weren't OK, what would the problem be, and what would the consequences be?
4. We left a house in another state that wouldn't sell when we moved here for a (supposed) business opportunity. We're more than happy to let the mortgage company have it back, but right before the 341 we received the property tax bill. Oops. I didn't think to ask the trustee about it. I was just getting in to a really bad case of flu that made me sicker than I've been in 10 years, so I wasn't exactly all there. We didn't have much in escrow since I got in a yelling match with the mortgage company last summer when they raised the payment by $300. I refused to pay the difference because it was their mistake, so they witheld it from the escrow account. Quit paying them altogether shortly after that. So anyway, should I include the taxes in the BK? Can I and how would I? Do I need to, or is it the mortgage company's problem?
5. The trustee is holding our case until we file our 2005 taxes, since this is the first year we've filed in Colorado. She stated that "a portion" of our return was part of the BK. How does that factor in? Part of the problem is that she's actually from Wyoming, on loan to Colorado because they're overloaded with all of us last-minute idiots . Anyway, she doesn't know Colorado law 100%. I found 2 different sites that state all of your federal and state return are exempt in Colorado, but like I said I can't find 2 sites that list the exemptions the same. Oh, and will the trustee "holding" our case mean it will take longer to discharge?
6. AND LAST, what is being done in the meantime? Can trustees actively look for things to nail us on, research our history, call our bank, etc. (ex: the job question above)? I don't think I'd have any reason to worry, but it'd sure be nice to just have this all over and done with.

Thanks for anything you can give me to answer my million questions and make me feel better ,
Steve.

[FilingOnMyOwn]

1. As long as the balance on the statement you provided was reasonably close to what you claimed, whats to worry about? Bank accounts are subject to flucuation due to electronic transfers. The trustees are mostly just looking for the smoking gun leading to a jackpot, not a few hundred bucks.
2. I'm sure you could get your rifle back one way or another.
3. Suggest your wife check out some temp agencies for quick holiday cash. I would discourage her finding a good paying permanent job until discharge.
4. As far as the house and property taxes are concerned, you are far better off with a professional opinion. You could however amend your return with the property tax bill and let the trustee know somehow if you do want to simply surrender the house.
5. If they are interested in your tax return, your case can remain open longer. File January 1st, or as soon as you recieve your W-2's. Don't file quick collect or electronically, file the old method of through the mail, and make copies to submit to the trustee immediately. This way, most likely the trustee will make a decision for you during the couple weeks it takes to get your return back.
6. Yes they can and do look at alot of things, but unless you are hiding things than don't worry. And if you have nothing to lose, thats exactly it, nothing to lose!

You should probably consult with an attorney about this if you have anything to lose.

[Teri]

Steve - we filed in Colorado and the they plan to take our tax returns. If there is a place that shows taxes are exempt in Colorado, I would love to see it. The trustee stated that we had to send her our tax returns before April 15 and she would evaluate them and decide what portion she would take....she also stated that she would then be required "by law" to take our cash on hand the day of filing - this was the amount we stated on our form that we filled out to give her that day.... we stated we had $160 and our bank statement showed we had over $900, but we were able to show checks out, etc. She said if our tax returns were over $1000 (as in previous years - $3000), she would be taking everything, but she would have to evaluate. She did not extend our bankrupcy, just stated to send things to her. We then signed a stipulation to turn over taxes and later in the mail got a copy of the JUDGE approving this stipulation.

[Minnymouth]

You may get discharged but your case will remain open until the Trustee settles up the income tax issue. After that they will file a "case closed" with Pacer.

Minny

[SteveInColorado]

I guess I didn't clarify that we did surrender the house in the original petition.
As far as the rifle goes, how do they go about selling things they seize?
Teri-
here http://www.bankruptcyinformation.com/CO_exemp.htm
here http://www.coloradobankruptcy.com/exemptions.html
and here http://www.totalbankruptcy.com/state...s_colorado.htm
say you are entitled to the full amount of any federal and state tax return. We probably watched 10 people before our case, all of whom had lawyers, and they were all told the same thing.
"You should probably consult with an attorney about this if you have anything to lose." Only more money that we didn't have in the first place, but courts have a way of taking anyway. Maybe we should do a consult with a lawyer. We could probably skip ONE week of eating .

Thanks for the replies guys. Not feeling much better, so keep tryin' ;).

Steve.

[Kam]

Hmm.. I thought there was a firearm exemption. I know for Idaho we were able to exempt 1 rifle.

[SteveInColorado]

I think it's a federal exemption, and I'd swear I saw it somewhere as a Colorado one, but could not come up with anything here lately. It's what I have of my grandfather, and I'd hate to lose it for that reason.

Steve.

[Teri]

Steve - those sites do not say you can keep your entire income tax refund--they say you can only take "The full amount of any federal or state earned income tax credit refund--13-54-102(1)(o). Earned income tax credit is only a portion of your income tax return and all filers (high income) are not entitled to earned income tax credits. Anyway, that is my understanding. I can only hope I am wrong, but I am pretty sure. At my 341 the trustee was requesting any high income filer to send in income tax refund, the lower income filers she didn't mention it to.

[FilingOnMyOwn]

Who knows for sure or not if they'll even want the rifle. But if they do, I'm sure you could buy it back. As long as its not some rare collectable of great value, don't worry about it.

[AAAArt]

Trustees are usually very happy to sell you stuff back, often even on payments. What yo need to do is get the rifle appraised and you want an accurrate, but low appraisal. Go to a gun store and ask what they would give you in cash for it (not on trade-in), then go to a pawn shop and ask the same question. Get bith in writing. Submit the lowest. Under the old law the value was determined in the same manner as the IRS uses..."What would the item bring in a forced sale where you had to sell it within a week or so" that is why we usually assign "garage sale" valeus to our furnishings and personal property. Art

[SteveInColorado]

Thanks, Art. That's the kind of info I was looking for.
Teri- huh! I guess you're right. I read it before 341 and didn't pay a lot of attention because I didn't see it as pertinent at the time. Then after the 341, I remembered it and thought "wait! she can't do that! Doublechecked, saw it was still there, and still didn't read the whole thing. Oh, well.
Here's a question. That paycheck that posted the day I filed. Is she going to go after that? I see that 75% of earned but unpaid wages are exempt, but I had exactly 0 in that department, and a balance of $1400, almost all deposited on that day, that we had to pay bills with and live on for 2 weeks. If she takes 10 cents away from us, there's gonna be a bill we can't pay because of it, and we'll never have a way to catch up.

Steve.

[AAAArt]

Usually if you can show that it was earmarked for bills and that those bills were paid w/in a short period of time, they will allow it. Art

[Teri]

Steve - what did she say to you about your money in the account? Ours took our word for what was already out of the account. My balance on bank statement said $945, but.... I had already purchased a tranny for our truck for $685 and I also had a check out for $100--so I actually had $160 in the account (I did note on the bank account the date of order/check and she could see it was taken out the DAY AFTER our 341, go figure)....that is the amount ($160) she told us, "by law", she would be required to take.....IF she took our income tax. We are trying to get our refund down to under $1000 (because that is what she led us to believe--if it was over $1000 she would take it and the checking account). We upped our deductions so nothing has been taken out since our 341.

[SteveInColorado]

She really didn't explain anything to us. Everybody that was there filed on October 14, so she had a full day. We just wanted to be done and get out of there, so we didn't ask the questions we should have. And like I said, I was so sick I was lucky to keep one eye half open. She asked questions about possible assets, but didn't explain why or what her plan was. Pretty helpful in a way, because apparently everything she asked us was a clue about what she was looking to take.
Funny thing, when I started my current job in July I claimed the maximum number of exemptions for the first time ever. Usually use my tax return as the only savings plan I have. Before we moved here I probably had claimed 1 or 2, so have some witheld through the middle of April. I guess it will probably be over $1000, but not the $2-3000 and more we've gotten the last few years. It just really stinks that the only source we have right now to get ahead a little is on the chopping block.

Steve.

[bkfiler]

i wonder if you cant claim 9 to avoid paying the trustee - hehe

seek counsel before taking that advice