Should I Pay for Free Atty. Consult?

[ApresMoi]

Well, this is ridiculous, but since I have been thinking of this for weeks now, I will just put it out there. I have had several 'free' atty consults. One, in particular, got the ball rolling on a Chapter 7. She answered substantive questions that I probably (in retrospect) had no right to ask. To put it another way, she answered questions that others said were "outside the scope of a consultation". In other words, other attorneys weren't freely giving away everything they knew. I'm sure they all get pro se'ers calling them up fishing for info. Anyway, I REALLY appreciated her willingness to do that. I said I would contact her when I was ready to file. Since then, I've realized that I can't afford her -- just cannot. Her fee is in line with what several others quoted (2K), but I found someone else for $800 less, and right now, that's a lot of money to me. That's a lot of money to save. I am fairly sure the cheaper firm is going to do the same job with the same results. But I took up this attorney's time, benefited from the vast amount of information on her website, etc. So what would you think about paying her (unbidden) a (say) $150 fee as a thank you for that consultation? I would only do this after I filed or after the 341 (whenever it would be okay to do so). Thoughts? I feel guilty about going with someone else. It's that simple.

[jlmaca]

Well, this is ridiculous, but since I have been thinking of this for weeks now, I will just put it out there. I have had several 'free' atty consults. One, in particular, got the ball rolling on a Chapter 7. She answered substantive questions that I probably (in retrospect) had no right to ask. To put it another way, she answered questions that others said were "outside the scope of a consultation". In other words, other attorneys weren't freely giving away everything they knew. I'm sure they all get pro se'ers calling them up fishing for info. Anyway, I REALLY appreciated her willingness to do that. I said I would contact her when I was ready to file. Since then, I've realized that I can't afford her -- just cannot. Her fee is in line with what several others quoted (2K), but I found someone else for $800 less, and right now, that's a lot of money to me. That's a lot of money to save. I am fairly sure the cheaper firm is going to do the same job with the same results. But I took up this attorney's time, benefited from the vast amount of information on her website, etc. So what would you think about paying her (unbidden) a (say) $150 fee as a thank you for that consultation? I would only do this after I filed or after the 341 (whenever it would be okay to do so). Thoughts? I feel guilty about going with someone else. It's that simple.

I think you have a good conscience, however, attorneys put forth a "free consult" to all potential clients as a marketing tool. You took advantage of it to the best of your ability and did not twist the arm of this attorney. I don't think bankruptcy attorneys are finding it hard to eat or pay their mortgages. Keep the money.

[LimpDisc]

At one point you said $800 is a lot of money to you right now, but now you want to pay $150 for a free consult? I think you answered your own question. Nobody forced that attorney to answer your questions. You owe her nothing!

[HHM]

I am fairly sure the cheaper firm is going to do the same job with the same results.

I wouldn't count on it. That way of thinking is the BIGGEST MISTAKE a person makes when shopping for an attorney. Maybe the cheaper firms is right for your case if it is simple, but if there is any complexity to it at all (and I mean, any thing beyond being a social security widow with 20K in credit card debt and literally no assets), then the cheaper firms can end up causing you more problems. Granted, there are some firms that charge the higher rate and only provide the same level of service as the cheaper firms, but they don't stay in business very long. Most of the time, the more expensive firms are worth it in some way.

[ApresMoi]

I wouldn't count on it. That way of thinking is the BIGGEST MISTAKE a person makes when shopping for an attorney. Maybe the cheaper firms if right for your case if it is simple, but if there is any complexity to it at all (and I mean, any thing beyond being a social security widow with 20K in credit card debt and literally no assets), then the cheaper firms can end up causing you more problems. Granted, there are some firms that charge the higher rate and only provide the same level of service as the cheaper firms, but they don't stay in business very long. Most of the time, the more expensive firms are worth it in some way.

Ok, I hear you. I will consider this some more. I will say this, the 2K attorney who had 10+ years experience did not have an answer to a question that I thought was fairly basic. Though she was very good in other areas. I forget exactly what I asked, but it had something to do with social security. It might have been whether I 'had' to file (I am of filing age) since that would bring in extra income to pay back creditors. I haven't filed yet because I wanted to wait until I was older btw. I think I asked that question later on these boards and was told 'no' (don't have to file just because I'm eligible/it's available to me).

[ApresMoi]

At one point you said $800 is a lot of money to you right now, but now you want to pay $150 for a free consult? I think you answered your own question. Nobody forced that attorney to answer your questions. You owe her nothing!

I know, but it's still a net gain. I think I'll just let it go (the idea). Tx.

[nickifan]

Since then, I've realized that I can't afford her -- just cannot. Her fee is in line with what several others quoted (2K), but I found someone else for $800 less, and right now, that's a lot of money to me. That's a lot of money to save. Thoughts? I feel guilty about going with someone else. It's that simple.

Hi AM,

I understand exactly how you feel. Maybe it's a chick thing, or just that we are very "noble".

I have a sort-of similar experience...I like two attys and one is $400 cheaper than the other. (The higher-priced one also mentioned that she's "tight with the US Trustee." It was just in conversation, not part of a sales pitch of course, but I remember thinking he'd probably be nice to her clients! If what should be a no-asset Ch 7 got him involved in some way. )

The cheaper atty is also close to me, so that is a small factor. And she gave me more than TWO HOURS of her time when we had the initial consult. She also said I would always deal with her...it's a small office and there appears to be only one paralegal for three attys (the others are not BK practitioners.) And she followed up with a letter about a month later inviting me to get in touch if I had any more questions about our discussion or her questionnaire. No one else followed up with me like that. One could argue she's hungrier for the business; or one could assume she's detail-oriented and it indicates she'd give good service. Or maybe both. But I do like her. (I also got a surprise private DM here from someone who saw I was still looking for an atty, and offered their good experience -- and it was the same attorney!)

In your case...what about this: Call or email the lawyer you really like and say you'd REALLY love to hire her, but coming up with the fee is truly difficult for you, and there is another atty whose fee is $800 less. And then just ask if she has any wiggle room in her fee. She might hold her ground and just talk about longer installment payments (if you can afford to wait)...but she also might surprise you and come down a bit. With my least-expensive attorney, her printed materials said her fee did NOT include the filing fees. But while we sat there she crossed that out and wrote "is included" when she quoted her fee. So maybe that was a snapshot of a month or day when she just really wanted to encourage the business. All I'm saying is this attorney may stretch a bit to work with you, too.

It never hurts to ASK, right? Good luck!

[BKDefender]

nickifan,
I don't know what the rules are in your jurisdiction, but in Nevada, if an attorney's communications states or implies that the attorney has some special relationship with an official or judge that can achieve results another attorney cannot because of that special relationship, then it can be deemed a violation of our rules of professional conduct (rule 7.1 among others).

--William

[ApresMoi]

Hi AM,

I understand exactly how you feel. Maybe it's a chick thing, or just that we are very "noble".

I have a sort-of similar experience...I like two attys and one is $400 cheaper than the other. (The higher-priced one also mentioned that she's "tight with the US Trustee." It was just in conversation, not part of a sales pitch of course, but I remember thinking he'd probably be nice to her clients! If what should be a no-asset Ch 7 got him involved in some way. )

The cheaper atty is also close to me, so that is a small factor. And she gave me more than TWO HOURS of her time when we had the initial consult. She also said I would always deal with her...it's a small office and there appears to be only one paralegal for three attys (the others are not BK practitioners.) And she followed up with a letter about a month later inviting me to get in touch if I had any more questions about our discussion or her questionnaire. No one else followed up with me like that. One could argue she's hungrier for the business; or one could assume she's detail-oriented and it indicates she'd give good service. Or maybe both. But I do like her. (I also got a surprise private DM here from someone who saw I was still looking for an atty, and offered their good experience -- and it was the same attorney!)

In your case...what about this: Call or email the lawyer you really like and say you'd REALLY love to hire her, but coming up with the fee is truly difficult for you, and there is another atty whose fee is $800 less. And then just ask if she has any wiggle room in her fee. She might hold her ground and just talk about longer installment payments (if you can afford to wait)...but she also might surprise you and come down a bit. With my least-expensive attorney, her printed materials said her fee did NOT include the filing fees. But while we sat there she crossed that out and wrote "is included" when she quoted her fee. So maybe that was a snapshot of a month or day when she just really wanted to encourage the business. All I'm saying is this attorney may stretch a bit to work with you, too.

It never hurts to ASK, right? Good luck!

Thoughtful reply, and thank you so much. I do think it's a chick thing, btw. I would be wary of an attorney who hints at an insider relationship. It probably exists only in her imagination. The other attorney sounds great...the one who followed up and showed attentiveness. It's the small things that count.

[nickifan]

nickifan,
I don't know what the rules are in your jurisdiction, but in Nevada, if an attorney's communications states or implies that the attorney has some special relationship with an official or judge that can achieve results another attorney cannot because of that special relationship, then it can be deemed a violation of our rules of professional conduct (rule 7.1 among others).

--William

Geez, now I feel bad that I seem to be maligning an attorney's rep. I really DON'T think it was a "hire me I'm connected" sales pitch, as I stated above. It was just part of conversation...joke-like in way, because I HAD asked if "all the Ch 7 trustees love her" ... so it was part of that chatter when she mentioned it.
But I can see what you're saying. I guess even jokes could be a problem later on with, say, a disgruntled client.

[HakunaMatata]

You can repay this attorney without money coming directly out of your pocket...send referrals! I had one consult attorney I really enjoyed; however, I didn't retain her (I selected my CPA's recommendation). Since meeting with her, I've sent referrals to her (including a fellow BK forum member who retained her).

[ApresMoi]

You can repay this attorney without money coming directly out of your pocket...send referrals! I had one consult attorney I really enjoyed; however, I didn't retain her (I selected my CPA's recommendation). Since meeting with her, I've sent referrals to her (including a fellow BK forum member who retained her).

What a great idea. This is the way to go. Happy now.

[ApresMoi]

Geez, now I feel bad that I seem to be maligning an attorney's rep. I really DON'T think it was a "hire me I'm connected" sales pitch, as I stated above. It was just part of conversation...joke-like in way, because I HAD asked if "all the Ch 7 trustees love her" ... so it was part of that chatter when she mentioned it.
But I can see what you're saying. I guess even jokes could be a problem later on with, say, a disgruntled client.

You were there; I wasn't. Sounds harmless enough.