Replacement Value - What Does it Mean??

[ApresMoi]

Good tip. I will use this. Thanks.

Exactly. I have been going over several successfully discharged cases on Pacer and the bottom line is that most of the stuff we own is worthless and needs to be listed as a bunch.
For example "Household goods and furniture" - "Usual and customary" $1,500

But you want to itemize the few things that you absolutely don't want to lose (if you can exempt them) in case someone comes over to your home (very unlikely) and decides they have value.

For example
"Household goods and furniture" - "Usual and customary" $1,500
Fender Stratocaster - $700

Hope this helps.

[GWBcasualty]

Well, has anyone ever heard of SoCal Bankruptcy court sending someone out to your home? I find it hard to believe too that people don't have SOMETHING that stands out, even if not very many items. May I ask was it an attorney who suggested the items should be separated out? Thanks.

You need to have something of VALUE... meaning something that can be effectively sold for $$$$ in a way that the trustee can get his share.

Most of filers have stuff that costed money... that is valuable to THEM... but that if sold at an auction fetches pennies on the dollar.

OK. Let's say you bought a new Computer eight months ago at $1,500... after eight months how much do you think it can be sold for? $200? $300? It's not worth their time...

[ApresMoi]

My iPod nano sells for about $35 on eBay. Pffftttt!! I paid $200 for it just a few years ago.

[ApresMoi]

Well, has anyone ever heard of SoCal Bankruptcy court sending someone out to your home? I find it hard to believe too that people don't have SOMETHING that stands out, even if not very many items. May I ask was it an attorney who suggested the items should be separated out? Thanks.

If you have room under your exemptions.
If you absolutely want to keep that item.

Than you should list it separately with a "closeout sale" value.

If the camera doesn't matter much to you, it means that you don't place that much value on it... so you list it bunching it up with other stuff.

I downloaded 10 petitions from PACER (successfully discharged in the minimum time) and I did not find a single iPod... a single digital camera... a single cell phone... a single computer... listed separately.
All these were professionally prepared.

I saved them as a pdf and just checked again... nope! Hard to believe that none of the filers owned a PC for example... you just put it in something like "Electronics"

[flyinbroke]

Most of these things lose value quickly. I have an iPod Mini. They don't make them anymore, probably worthless. Film cameras...worthless. Cell phone...old school Sanyo that was free...worthless. Computer bought in '06....worth very little. Hometheater was bought in '03....not worth much.TV bought in '03...worthless.

[GWBcasualty]

Good tip. Do you have a bottom line value for stuff you should list out? A minimum? What if something would sell on eBay for $300 (camera)? Should I separate that out?

If you have room under your exemptions.
If you absolutely want to keep that item.

Than you should list it separately with a "closeout sale" value.

If the camera doesn't matter much to you, it means that you don't place that much value on it... so you list it bunching it up with other stuff.

I downloaded 10 petitions from PACER (successfully discharged in the minimum time) and I did not find a single iPod... a single digital camera... a single cell phone... a single computer... listed separately.
All these were professionally prepared.

I saved them as a pdf and just checked again... nope! Hard to believe that none of the filers owned a PC for example... you just put it in something like "Electronics"

[flyinbroke]

I have photography equipment. I bought a nice film setup in 1999. Today I found a lot of the camera body on eBay...for a dollar! Anything over about 5 bucks had no bids on it. Film photography is out and no one is playing or paying anymore. I guess I can separate them, for the sake of the worksheet but they are not worth much.

[ApresMoi]

Exactly. I have been going over several successfully discharged cases on Pacer and the bottom line is that most of the stuff we own is worthless and needs to be listed as a bunch.
For example "Household goods and furniture" - "Usual and customary" $1,500

But you want to itemize the few things that you absolutely don't want to lose (if you can exempt them) in case someone comes over to your home (very unlikely) and decides they have value.

For example
"Household goods and furniture" - "Usual and customary" $1,500
Fender Stratocaster - $700

Hope this helps.

Good tip. Do you have a bottom line value for stuff you should list out? A minimum? What if something would sell on eBay for $300 (camera)? Should I separate that out?

[JEM]

Exactly. I have been going over several successfully discharged cases on Pacer and the bottom line is that most of the stuff we own is worthless and needs to be listed as a bunch.
For example "Household goods and furniture" - "Usual and customary" $1,500

But you want to itemize the few things that you absolutely don't want to lose (if you can exempt them) in case someone comes over to your home (very unlikely) and decides they have value.

For example
"Household goods and furniture" - "Usual and customary" $1,500
Fender Stratocaster - $700

Hope this helps.

I'm pretty sure we don't have one of those...I don't even know what it is. LOL.

But ya...I really don't think our stuff has any special value.

[GWBcasualty]

Ha! I asked my husband what he thought we'd get at a garage sale for our couch and loveseat and he said MAYBE $50...for the PAIR. I said we'd probably end up having to haul it off to goodwill as a donation.

We bought them 7 yrs ago at the PX for like $1000....it's been moved 3 times since then, and through 2 small kids and one teenager in the that time. And now a puppy that likes to chew on the bottom.

Exactly. I have been going over several successfully discharged cases on Pacer and the bottom line is that most of the stuff we own is worthless and needs to be listed as a bunch.
For example "Household goods and furniture" - "Usual and customary" $1,500

But you want to itemize the few things that you absolutely don't want to lose (if you can exempt them) in case someone comes over to your home (very unlikely) and decides they have value.

For example
"Household goods and furniture" - "Usual and customary" $1,500
Fender Stratocaster - $700

Hope this helps.

[flyinbroke]

Mine has pug hair and cat puke spots on it and has done a couple of cross country moves. 80 is only ten cents on the dollar and I may get that for the couch and loveseat, being as they are currently, ahem, decorated. I was going to get new furniture, looked in the BX catalog...may just opt to clean what I have for the BK time being lol. Besides, who wants new stuff being decorated by pugs and kittehs.

The only expensive thing I have is my new mattress, and the CC for that is current and will remain so. Mattresses do not retain value, but I feel I should at least pay towards it.

[JEM]

One lawyer I looked at had on his website the preliminary paperwork. He said flat out "garage sale prices" and he wanted to see no more than ten cents on the dollar. That sounds about right for furniture and even electronics. My 10 year old couch was 800, and may get 80 tops. If I clean the dog hair off it.

Ha! I asked my husband what he thought we'd get at a garage sale for our couch and loveseat and he said MAYBE $50...for the PAIR. I said we'd probably end up having to haul it off to goodwill as a donation.

We bought them 7 yrs ago at the PX for like $1000....it's been moved 3 times since then, and through 2 small kids and one teenager in the that time. And now a puppy that likes to chew on the bottom.

[flyinbroke]

One lawyer I looked at had on his website the preliminary paperwork. He said flat out "garage sale prices" and he wanted to see no more than ten cents on the dollar. That sounds about right for furniture and even electronics. My 10 year old couch was 800, and may get 80 tops. If I clean the dog hair off it.

[ApresMoi]

I have a question about "garage sale" values....

The second lawyer I saw said that trustees don't like it to be "garage sale" value, that it's replacement value for LIKE CONDITION/AGE. Which the lawyer admitted is basically garage sale value. Because honestly, where are you going to get a 7 yr old couch or a 2 yr old TV etc...

So is he basically saying that yes, you should value your stuff as a 2 yr old TV or a 7 yr old couch?

That was my understanding.

Just go on ebay or craigslist and search for your item. A 7 year old couch, even if expensive when new, is essentially worthless today. If it cost 3,500 new, and is still in mint condition, you MIGHT get $300 at auction. As it was told to me, people don't want to buy old couches or bedding. Go on eBay. You can find once pricey used mattresses selling for next to nothing. I saw a huge King size Sealy that was something like 2 years old, was clean and looked brand new (and was being sold from a very nice neighborhood/home), and they couldn't get any bidders at $200.

Just check online to find comparable sales and use that to value things. The trustee isn't going to have any easier time selling it than you will.

For what it's worth, one auction house told me they only hold auctions to sell furniture twice per year in Los Angeles. So what is a trustee going to do? Pay to store your goods before they can sell them in six months at auction? I don't think so.

[JEM]

I have a question about "garage sale" values....

The second lawyer I saw said that trustees don't like it to be "garage sale" value, that it's replacement value for LIKE CONDITION/AGE. Which the lawyer admitted is basically garage sale value. Because honestly, where are you going to get a 7 yr old couch or a 2 yr old TV etc...

So is he basically saying that yes, you should value your stuff as a 2 yr old TV or a 7 yr old couch?

That was my understanding.