POLL: Should I File My BK Pro-Se?

[bkfiler]

POLL: Should I File My BK Pro-Se?

i thought it would be helpful to take a poll and collect information from everyone as to why you should file and not file your own bankruptcy petition with the courts. this way new people looking for answers have a quick place to see the pros and cons and choose for themselves.

your input is important! anything you feel or think about the subject is valued!

[down @ out]

filing pro-se

This is a great question.

I suggest anyone, whether you file on your own or seek legal help assume you are filing pro-se and research the bankruptcy law as much as you can.

Having said this the new law is a real mess and you will need to do a lot more work than before.

I filed under the old law and spent a lot of time researching the whole thing and came to the conclusion that for me filing pro-se just made more sense. After spending about two weeks in libraries and reading a lot on the subject I contacted several lawyers and determined they were well pretty much worthless. Doesn`t mean there are not good ones out there but I suspect most are doing bankruptcy law just to survive. The advise I was getting was generally worthless and also dangerous.

So whatever you do do your homework. Approach bankruptcy as you would your job. Learn as much as you can so folks don`t fleece you in this process, whether they be the trustees, your attorney, or creditors. They all may stick it to you. Knowledge is the only way to get through this alive.

Good luck and merry christmas.

[bkfiler]

pro-se:

- there are rules that you dont know how they will affect your until its too late. most of us here right now are still learning stuff and our bk is almost discharged.

- you can save some money. you still have to pay the filing fees and credit counseling fees of course. you can get this money by not paying the bills you are going to file a bk on though.

- if you dont follow the rules required then your case gets thrown out and you loose the filing fee.

- paperwork for the new laws have changed and even attorneys at this point are not sure how everything works. however, they have been doing bk's much monger and can figure it out quicker.

- there is no software out yet that helps you file with the new process. the books are being phased out since they are outdated. new books and software will come at some point im sure.

- you will learn a great deal about the bk process if you do it yourself. however, im not sure if this is a true benefit.

- if you enter into agreements without knowing what the standard rates, amounts, characteristics are about such aggreements you may and most likey will be hurt in the future by it. its less likey that you will get a better deal going into it for the first time and negotiating a deal.

- if you run into motions to dismiss you will end up loosing your case unless you get an attorney. this is because lots of attorneys also loose these cases as well. you will most certainly loose and your case will be dismissed or you will be forced into a chap 13 where you will most defintely need an attorney.


attorney:

- you have legal recourse if they mis-handle the case or paperwork.

- you have someone to ask questions when something bad seems to be happening. you can use this board too though for some questions.

- they have extensive experience handling the paperwork and helping the client get the most out of thier particular case.

- they have personal dealing and relationships with the trustees, us trustees, judges and even creditors. this can benefit you greatly because they know what is allowed and not allowed or how to get around something that is a problem in your case.

- creditors are less likey to go after you because you have counsel.

- trustees are less likey to go after you because you are counsel.

- us trustees are less likey to go after you because you are counsel.

- you can get questions answered as to what information you are being asked for and what paperwork you need to present to the court.

- if there is a problem, such as motions filed against you then you can get help on what you should do from an experienced attorney that already knows your case.

- you shouldnt trust your attorney to do everything right. you must check his work and due some of your own research to make sure you case is proceeding correctly and you get all the benefits possible.

- if a creditor comes after you then your attorney already knows how this negotiations should be handled. he also knows your situation as well and can nip anything in the bud before it gets out of control. in other words, shut then down quicker based on facts he presents before they get carried away.

- caution: most attorneys wont help you shape or mold you bk so its to your benefit if it would be seen by the courts as fraud. this encompasses many things but for a simple example your attorney wont tell you ahead of time that having $10K in cash wont be exempted entirely unless you ask him the rules ahead of time. they may however telll you what you can do to keep the money such as purchase whole life insurance, health insurance, get repairs done, etc to lower the amount of cash left in hand.

[StaciMM]

I truly believe it is more complicated now than it was before 10/17. If I were filing now-I would use an attorney.

In time, once the new laws have been explored a bit more, there will probably be software packages that you can buy to outline EVERYTHING, much like form7.com did before 10/17. Until then-I agree w/ Down@out... Do all the work but have an attorney for when it counts.

[Genenco]

Good question...

On the Pro Pro-se side:

Less cost.

On the Con Pro-se side:

You need to be familiar with procedure.
You'll need to provide more paperwork.
You'll have to deal with creditors.
The trustee will be more likely to file an objection, so as to shake you up.

[FoolAndHisMoney]

One more thing to to add to the list: If you file with an attorney the attorney will certify that you are telling the truth regarding the value of your assets since they will now invesitgate you. If you file pro se a bankruptcy administrator may pay your residence a visit to confirm you are telling the truth regarding your assets. Even if you pro se filers have nothing to hide, I don't think you want anyone to "pay you a visit".

Save your money and get a good lawyer.

[down @ out]

filing pro-se

Have to say that under the old laws unless your case was very complicated the way to go was to do it yourself. The main reason being that this forces you hopefully to learn the law and be able to protect yourself from your attorney, the trustees and the creditors.

Keep one thing in mind it is not the existence of an attorney in your camp that is importent it is the strength of your case and that it makes sense to the trustee, etc.

Believe anyone getting into something like this without at least trying to understand what is going on is a bit nuts. The stakes are too high and you should not trust anyone. They are all great white sharks you are dealing with and should be approached as such. Just remember the only difference between your attorney and the other side is you are feeding this great white.

Given a chance your attorney maybe you worst enemy or if simply stupid or un-caring can get you in a lot of trouble.

At my 341 hearing I watch for about 2 hours before going on and in general I wouldn`t by a used car from most of the attorneys I saw and I surely would not trust my future with one. Use one if you must but remember what Ronald Regan once said when dealing with the Soviets. "trust but verify". Trust you attorney but also verify and understand what is going on.

Good luck

[Lightning]

Option 3:

Don't file bankruptcy, and pay all that you owe instead.

Filing BK Pro-Se: Inexpensive
Filing BK With an Attorney: Expensive
Not Filing and Taking Responsibility: Priceless

[bkfiler]

i keep hearing things. someone here that? never mind. it was nothing.

[FoolAndHisMoney]

i keep hearing things. someone here that? never mind. it was nothing.

Yeah nothing A BIG NOTHING!

[Lightning]

If you respond to voices you don't hear, doesn't that mean you're crazy?

[bkfiler]

i keep hearing things. someone here that? never mind. it was nothing.

[down @ out]

Taking responsibility and not filing have nothing to do with each other. Actually filing is the most responsible thing a person can do if the circumstances require it.

There is no shame in surviving. The only shame is on folks who pontificate morality while at the same time showing little or no morality in their pontification. It is easy to talk it is not easy to walk the talk. Have a feeling walking the talk is not something you do well.

In this case lightining does not illuminate anything it only covers up the fact we are all humans. Covers it up and brings shame on the one who claims the moral high ground.

What a waste.

[FilingOnMyOwn]

Right on. I put off my filing for 3 years by trying to do 'the right thing'. It only caused further harm to myself and my creditors. There becomes a point when fees and interest so greatly outpaces any payment you can make, so regardless if whether or not you continue using credit, you still end up going further into debt. Default interest rates? See: Predatory Lending Practices.

I filed pro-se because I had nothing to lose. A simple cut and dry no asset case.

If you have possessions that you are wanting to keep after filing, use an attorney.

[fiats3]

Don't...sad story.

I filed pro-se last June after the NAF (National Arbitration Forum) tried to get a judgment against me in Virginia for $27K. Thinking I was being smart, I stopped them fold dna rolled up a total of 100K of old unsecured debt into a BK7 and sat back and waited for my discharge...I was cocky..

Then, out of nowhere the trustee said I failed to file a $23 form called a homesteed deed and he wanted to hold hearing to find out how mych equity was in my house...I converted to a Chapter 13 to dodge him, but the Chap13 trustee is working collusion with him (the Chap 7 trustee) to try and convert me back to Chap7 and take the house. IT IS AN ABSOLUTE NIGHTMARE. I should report them both to the DA's office and the US Trustee Office for unethical behavior.

Look, if you own a house DO NOT GO PRO-SE. IF ALL YOU HAVE IS SOME FURNITURE AND JOB, THEN GO FOR IT. OTHERWISE, YOU ARE CRAZY. TAKE IT FROM SOMEONE WHO KNOWS.