Sears

[jeff01]

We just filed Chapter 7 on Friday and expect our meeting in the next few weeks. I have a ton of questions and even more stress. One of my questions has to do with Sears. I think Sears holds a security interest in what is bought with their credit card? I have a bunch of tools purchased for home improvements and a lawn tractor that I bought from them. There has to be a bunch of experience with Sears and I am wondering if they usually want stuff back? I wouldn't be too worried if the do, it belongs to them because I haven't paid for all of it. Just curious if they bother. I understand that the trustee may want it as there is some combined value there.

[AAAArt]

We bk'd Sears on my wife's card. Never heard anything from them. It was for less than $200 though and all clothes. Don't know if they check what you purchased or not. Prob. might if you bought a $4000 lawn tractor and still owed $3500 on it. but you just never know. And I mean that you literally never know. There are trends and "normals" but even the same tyoe of debt in the same district with the same trustee can be treated differently. Depends on who gets your paperwork, how your case strikes them, what kind of mood they are in that day, etc. Strsnge and crazy, but true.
You can choose what to exempt and what not to exempt, except for secured debts. You can list it as an unsecured debt if you want (I certainly would) and then if Sears comes after you for it as a secured debt, you can amend your petition and claim other items as exempt.
Now...even if Sears does not claim it as secured, you will either have to exempt it, turn it over to the trustee or buy it back from the trustee (and yes, they will most often allow you to buy back property and even make payments over several months at 0% interest).
Hope that helps. Welcome to the Forum. Art

[bkfiler]

for store cards to claim their debts are secured they have to be registered properly with the state, etc. beleive it or not most arent. like bestbuy for example from my understanding.

go read about that on this site. i find him helpful.

http://www.mcfarlinlaw.com/phpbb/viewtopic.php?t=82&sid=fc22c2ac6d77af15a624e060330739c5

search around for 'lien' and 'secured' and see what you find.

remember that if those items no longer are in your possesion, sold them or/and you dont know what happened to them there is nothing they can do.

(i think i saw araart riding off on the mower. his buggy must have broke down)

[FilingOnMyOwn]

I would imagine they take the riding lawn mower and let you keep the rest, unless there was something else big that you have. They probably aren't going to want back a used 100$ circular saw. But an expensive table saw, perhaps they might. Depends on what all you have.

[SinkingFast]

I'm in a quandry about Sears as well. Part of the debt on our Sears CC is a new oven and cooktop I bought last summer. Both were left in the house we are trying to sell. The old appliances needed to be replaced and the new appliances helped give the kitchen a fresh new look. Had hoped that would help sell the house quicker but it hasn't.

I read on a CC Forum site that Stores can come back and get property purchased on their store card. But our particular Sears CC is a MasterCard. Also, I learned when we refi'ed our house several years back that GE Credit was the actual backer on our Sears MC. So now I really wonder what might happen. I certainly don't want Sears to go in and rip out the appliances at the house we are trying to sell out of state??!!

[2US]

$7,300 discharged on SEARS, including a computer, and never heard a word from them; I don't believe they cause any grief. I was concerned because I read somewhere that SEARS used to be pretty relentless when it came to that stuff, but from what I understand, once Citibank bought them, they have a different position.

[Printer099]

Your sears credit card is a PMSI, which is outlined in the finance agreement you signed. Sears does not have to register anything with the state, to have a security interest in a PMSI. Sears has a secured interest in your items, you have 3 options, you can redeem, surrender, or reaffirm. On your statement of Intent you must identify what your intention. If you do not they can and probably will try to recover their items.

[SinkingFast]

PMSI??? Please explain.

Our Sears card isn't a "store" card per se. It's a MasterCard with Sears written on the front. We can shop and make purchases with it anywhere. Not just Sears. I have a couple store cards. I can charge items purchased at those particular stores only on those cards. Can't go to Wally World with either one of those, but I can charge at Wally World with my Sears MC. All the rest of the debt on our Sears card was from purchases made elsewhere. The oven and cooktop are the only "Sears" items purchased with it. Did that because it got us a 10% discount and free delivery/install.

[jeff01]

Thanks for the replies. I have so many questions that I can't even begin to think of what to ask next. I can't remember a time in my life of being so anxious. Thanks again.

[SinkingFast]

Ok,......... I didn't sign any agreement with Sears. Some years back, they just sent me a card in the mail with a pre approved line of credit. All I had to do was was accept by activating the card.

I researched PMSI and found that Sears does have a contingency policy. Whenever you make a purchase at Sears, using a Sears card, there's a "Security Interest" statement in the terms just above where the buyer signs for the purchase. It has been upheld as "a directly inferred security interest" in more than one case.

Sears can attach and/or repossess property purchased from them with their card. Exceptions are few. Most obvious is if the property in question was already exempted in the BK petition. Household items, such as major appliances (stove, fridge, washer/dryer), and other items used for the health and welfare of the family fall into a tricky area under the BK codes and are generally not attached.

Others posted here they personally had no problem with Sears at all. That may be a bridge you have to cross when you come to it.

[StaciMM]

I think Sears was known in the past for being very aggressive on getting people to reaffirm. As in, you could pretty much count on a Sears rep showing up at your 341 and expecting you to sign... I don't know details, but I'm pretty sure they ultimately got into trouble about it and they are nto so aggressive now.

In reality, if they raise an issue, you do have the right to redeem items (by paying what it is worth) and of course you would have the option to reaffirm. If they are going to actually come for the items, however, there are certain actions they have to take, and the time & money would come from their pocket.

For items that you no longer have possession of, those debts are now unsecured.

[bkfiler]

yep, sears was sued and spanked for that. but it will be interesting to see what the poster finds out on the site i listed. that guy has some pretty good insight to scumbag creditors

[Danoboy]

We went thru this in 1986

My wife and I filed chapter 7 1n 1986. We were both laid off from the same company.We lived in Arizona and our Atty told us that the only problem we would have was the motorola credit union and sears. Motorola credit union bans you for life from banking with them and sears will show up at the creditors hearing to take a twelve year old toaster if you bought it with their card.
It was just an intimidation tactic in that the lawyer for Sears asks for the worthless toaster and the judge says no.
I tried to open another sears card twenty years later and believe me Sears never forgets. We had perfect credit and they said no because they never forget.
I can't believe what I am hearing!!!! Sears is on the verge of bankruptcy!!!

HOW IS THIS POSSIBLE?
I thought they walked on water?

[catleg]

Forget it, you won't have any problem.
Sears credit operations is run by Citi, which is really a mess.
They didn't even file a proof of claim in our chapter 13 case.
I believe, but I can't cite anywhere, that when a third party finance company
is involved with a store card then PMSI does not automatically attach, because
the store gets paid by the finance company.
It's true Sears had a bad reputation for this in the 90's and got slapped down hard.
I had a similar concern with a lawn tractor and an HD card (also Citi) and didn't hear a peep.

[Charlie777]

When Sears ran their own credit operations they were very aggressive, but now they outsource credit to Citi as other posters have stated. I had three accounts that had security interest language - Sears, BestBuy (HSBC) and the largest was a furniture store. Heard nothing from any of them.