Married, filing seperate?? Please help!

[nikki5500]

I am in Washington state, I am in over my head in debt and I have contemplated and realised Chapter 7 bankruptcy is my best option. My husband is supportive, in fact, he's doing all the paper work for me. He brought up a good point, though and I need help. He filed Chapter 7 also, in 2001, before we were married. My intent was to file as an individual and not jointly. We have a few bills together, but we also have our "individual" bills. My individual bills far out-weigh our joint bills and neither one of us can pay them. We have fallen into the payday loan/ credit card trap.

Anyway, I need to know a few things. First can I even file legally as an individual, even though I'm married? Second, does my husband's prior bankruptcy hurt my chances of filing, or have anything to do with me, since it was before we married? Last, I am afraid the court will want to look at my husband's income and/or make him liable for my debts, can/will they do that? I want to keep him out of it. We have worked together to pay these debts, but we can't do it. He has his own debts, as well as our housing costs each month. If I can eliminate my personal consumer debts, I can help more with our joint bills at home, so we can get out of this mess. He still has 6 years, before his previous bankruptcy is cleared, that's why I'm trying to keep him out of it. So is this possible, if so, I really need some advice.

By the way, if there is anyone here, familiar with the bankruptcy laws in Washington state, I would appreciate it. I imagine each state has their own rules. Thank you!

[StaciMM]

WA is a community property state-meaning everything you owe and own, you owe and own together. If you file BK, YES your creditors can pursue your husband. He can't file ch. 7 again, as he filed in 01. You should be able to jointly file 13 though.

When you consider your regular income, and your regular expenses, what is the difference? Do not count credit card payments, payday loans, etc. Post more details about your situation (no personal info) and we can give more feedback.

[Genenco]

I am in Washington state !

(Note: The answers were taken from a web search, get with a lawyer for exact answers and good representation)

Anyway, I need to know a few things. First can I even file legally as an individual, even though I'm married? !

If you are married, your spouse does not have to file bankruptcy. You can file bankruptcy as an individual or you can file one joint bankruptcy

Second, does my husband's prior bankruptcy hurt my chances of filing, or have anything to do with me, since it was before we married? !

(Unknown, consult lawyer)

Last, I am afraid the court will want to look at my husband's income and/or make him liable for my debts, can/will they do that? !

(Possibly, consult lawyer) (Note: this is what I have found. Any individual can file bankruptcy without their spouse filing with them. However, any debt owed by both husband and wife will remain in full against the one who did not file)

By the way, if there is anyone here, familiar with the bankruptcy laws in Washington state, I would appreciate it. I imagine each state has their own rules. Thank you!

I am also in WA, but am single and so, have little knowledge of what may or may not happen...Web searching is useful, but not good for solid answers as always...

[bkfiler]

nicki500, you can search the web for answers of course. but if someone replies with 'actual knowledge' instead its a better base to start from.

[nikki5500]

I have tried many Google searches, using many different words. Either I get some other state's rules, or I get a bunch of beating around the bush. I have been told on many sites that I can file individually, but my main question (The marital repercussions) could not be answered. I don't have time to search anymore, I had to get in and ask someone. I typed in "bankruptcy forums" and this was the first site I saw.

We cannot afford a lawyer for any of this. I have called every attorneys' office in town, just to ask this simple question and noone will offer that little bit for free. My husband represented himself when he filed and everything went through perfectly. He was single, though, so he didn't have to go through this hurdle. I don't want to file, if all my bills are going to be unloaded onto my husband, that makes no sense to me.

As for my situation, I made mistakes and got us into a jam. I have always been good with my money and always been able to maintain my good credit, my credit cards, bills, etc. Well, it started a couple years ago when we got married. We had no money on hand and we weren't able to save anything, so we had to finance our whole wedding. We didn't want to make the mistakes our parents' made and get married at the courthouse or Reno, lol. We wanted something nice. My brother, who is older than me has never been responsible or stable, has been living with us off and on the past 2 years. He doesn't help us out at all, in fact he costs a lot just like a child. My husband has been wanted to "cut off" my brother for a long time, but I have pleaded with him to be patient and he has, for 6 years that we've been together. I swore that I could change my brother into someone responsible and less selfish. Well, I can't. I was wrong. My brother has made promises to pay part of our rent, only to find out, that come rent day he has no money. Then we have to get payday loans to pay the rent and other bills, he promised he'd pay. Trust me, I tried to avoid it, but our family is poor, my husband hardly gets any credit at all, we have no savings and our income is minimal.

The due date for the payday loan would come fast and we would have to decide between rent/power/food, or paying the payday loan off. Well we need a roof, power and food, so we'd go get another "quick" loan to pay off the last one. That's the start of that mess. Then we move and our utility and internet companies charge us all new set up costs, because our new address means a new account (??). At one point our power bill was about $600 because we ran out of money.

My current situation is this: We have all these credit cards, loans, overdrawn bank accounts (from mysterious charges of on-line accounts) late fees and interest rates coming out of our backsides. My mom died in October and we are trying to focus on all this stuff. We haven't really had a greiving period yet, because things keep coming up. I bought my brother a used car for Christmas, because I thought maybe that would give him some incentive to go get a life. My husband wanted to get me one last present and came up a little short for rent. I got a loan for the cost of the car, the rest of rent, food, gas, etc. The loan company told me everything went through fine and the money would be in my account in the morning. I was exited! I sent my husband to go pay for the car and I went and wrote checks for food and rent. The next morning, the loan company called me at work and informed me that they looked at my credit a second time and decided to change their mind. Great, I already had it spent, because they assured me I had the money. The car already cleared, but now I'm negative that much in my checking account. Oh yeah and my checking account happens to be at the bank I work at! The food check cleared too and sent me further negative and I have NSF fees all over. I called our landlord and begged her not to cash the rent check and to not tack on late fees. She agreed, but that was a week ago. The rent money my husband deposited was confiscated to go towards the negative balance. Now I need over $2000 just to bring the balance back to $0, then another $700 for rent. We can't come up with that kind of money. We are expecting an eviction notice at anytime and we don't know what to do. My husband is stressed out and frantically trying to find some side work to do on his off days, but what a coincidence. Everyone else is broke too and can't afford to hire him right now. My brother agreed to give me payments for the car, but we need the money now.

This is why I need to do this. We are in big debt (we don't even have new cars or a house, to show for it.) that we can't pay for and we need to try to get some quick help and maybe a miracle to help us out of this jam. Sorry I typed so much, I just have a lot going on, I could keep mumbling on. Anyway, there it is.

[nikki5500]

By the way, I know some of you may be shaking your heads, but I am fully aware we have made some bad, if not idiotic choices. It is, though, more or less out of desperation. We don't have any other options, really.

[bkfiler]

besides the answers given here, start using the appt with attornys (they are free) to get advice. just tell them you aer going to file bk. they dont need to know you are going to do it yourself (which i dont recommned).

you can and will learn a great deal from them. do that as well as posting here too.

everything is going to work out fine. dont worry.

[bkfiler]

By the way, I know some of you may be shaking your heads, but I am fully aware we have made some bad, if not idiotic choices. It is, though, more or less out of desperation. We don't have any other options, really.

are you kidding? lol you wanna hear our story? i will have you weeping for a week straight. your husband will be mad that you are crying for someone elses situation instead of yours. dont worry. we all have similar situations as you. you arr amongst friends that wont ridicule you. we are just like you. we are a family.

glad you are here. feel free to unload all day long

[nikki5500]

bkfiler, Thanks for the support! I know there's other people in similar situations, making similar "stupid" choices. There seems to be a lot more of those people, who want to judge you and tell you, you screwed up. Your comments actually made me feel better for the moment, thanks!

[StaciMM]

Nikki-99% of the people here have either been thru it or are contemplating filing in the very near future. We're all on the same road.

Besides-to err is human. At least we can learn from our mistakes!

[StaciMM]

You should be able to schedule consultations w/ a few attorneys. When setting them up, keep in mind your purpose is to gather info and get answers.

From what I found online earlier, WA is a community property state. So, filing BK (you alone) would give you a temporary lull to catch your breath-but it wouldn't solve anything since your husband CAN be held responsible for your bills and he can't file ch. 7 right now.

A ch. 13 would possibly allow you a chance to catch get a handle on things. To figure out if that is even an option, realistically, you need to sit down and list All monthly expenses. I am not in a position to give you personal advice regarding your brother, so ignore this next bit if you want (I have a hard time staying quiet-I do mean well)... It may be time to analyze your priorities. At some point, taking care of your brother may jeopardize your marriage. A relationship can only handle so much. If a ch. 13 does ultimately work out for you, you'll only be sabotaging your own fresh start if you keep trying to bail him out.

[nikki5500]

Thanks for the help! From what my sources are telling me you are right about Chapter 7. It's sounding more and more like I won't be able to do it. I've seen a lot of "no's" and no "yes's" so far. I have called a hand full of attorneys' so far and they've been rather rude, I'm guessing because I made it clear I don't want their services and they're not getting my money, lol. They just don't seem too willing to give out any free advice. I also got a few secretaries, who wouldn't say anything, because they weren't attorneys'. I will have to look at Chapter 13 and see what that will do. I feel like I'm that little silver car on the Monopoly game, lol. All my properties are mortgaged and sold off, my cash is gone, my oponents have all the hotels and every turn I get I'm landing on someone who wants my money! I feel like at any moment a giant is going to appear, tell me "game over" and smash me with a giant sledgehammer, lol! Thanks again!

[StaciMM]

Little tip-when you call to schedule a consultation, don't tell them that you're just doing homework, LOL!

[KevinR]

You need to consult with a lawyer (or two).

This is my opinion only, from researching this issue in the last few weeks.

You can file by yourself, and it doesn't matter that your husband filed in the past. At least, it doesn't keep you from filing.

I *THINK* in a community property state what they can do is go after your husbands assets for your debt. So when you're trying to figure out what assets you can exempt, you need to include everything the two of you own. His personal stuff is not automatically exempt.

I don't *THINK* that they can hold your husband responsible for your debt. In the sense that if you successfully file Chapter 7 and get your debts discharged, they're gone. Of course if it was a joint credit card that he signed up for with you, he can be held responsible for that

But again, whether or not you're filing pro se, talk to a few lawyers and discuss your options. Usually the initial consultation is free.

[StaciMM]

Unfortunately, KevenR-community property states hold that everything is jointly owned/owed regardless of whose name is on the asset/debt. The husband can be pursued, even if his name is not on the accounts, so a ch. 7 by the OP would only clear her from responsibility and leave the spouse still responsible. And, since he can't file ch. 7, it would not accomplish anything for the OP to file.

A joint ch. 13, on the other hand, if they have even $100-150/mo that they could pay into a plan, would take care of it. The spouse is eligible for ch. 13 since more than 4 years have passed since his ch. 7, the creditors would get repaid in part and in the end the rest would be discharged. And-most attorneys allow at least part of their fee to be incuded in the plan payment, so not as much $$ upfront required.

The OP will probably need to open another checking account, or go cash only for a while...