HELP PLEASE - BK / Casino Markers 100% prosecution

[leslie465]

All -

Please reply if you have knowledge on the following.......I am scared to death at this point.

Owe $6,750.00 to NV casinos and $3,500.00 to a casino in Indiana. Debt incurrred within the last (60) days. All debt from markers. Have a (10) year history of paying off over $100K in markers through the years - never late / never an issue. I have since hit rock bottom and BK is my last resort.

Filed for a Chap 7 last week. I am not impressed with my lawyer - he seems to only be worried about the BK proccedings and not potential prosecution due to my markers I have defaulted on. He says as long as I did not purposely defraud the casinos I have nothing to worry about. On paper it may appear that way, in reality I am a degenerate gambler who just hit rock bottom at a really crappy time.

QUESTION - Do casinos prosecute 100% of the time for unpaid markers? I read elsewhere that if you file BEFORE the markers are sent to the NV DA office they do not prosecute??? Seems odd but I pray this is true.

I am confused why my home state BK court would allow me to discharge the debt only to be arrested by the NV legal system.

Why even bother with casino markers - they should just run your credit and let you write a personal check for that amount - seems like this would end the debate whether a marker is a check.

[sunshinepa]

You should do a search on casino markers and look for a response from those on the forum who have had markers. There is also a sticky on the top of the forum page you may want to read.

Good luck!

[JackBondLove]

I read through everything, and amazingly it seems that under Nevada law, a marker is a check, so not backing up the marker is a form of bad check writing, a felony.

I'm sure that Nevada would prefer that somehow the debt stays on your record post-BK as it would rather get its part of the casino tax from making good on the marker then having to spend oodles of tax money to go through the legal process and eventual stay at the penitentiary.

This is something that federal law should get involved in. Of course, I would doubt that Senator Reid of Nevada would want any reform.

[HHM]

leslie

If the markers have not been turned over for prosecution, you have a chance to settle. Most casinos will accept half and some will even accept about a 1/3. Of course, settling requires that you have the money.

Once the markers go to the district attorney, you still have a chance to settle. Again, the average settlement is going to be 50-60% (your mileage may vary).

[catleg]

I think you may be right about filing BK before they try to collect.

Technically they can go after you to make the debt non-dischargeable in BK because you violated the language on the marker which always says "I have money on deposit in the bank to make this marker good".

But in my browsing cases in NJ I found only the Borgata in AC actively doing that. Including some cases where a debtor clearly ran up a bunch of markers to casinos in NV and NJ and only the Borgata pursued it.

Then of course if it's a NV casino they can go after you criminally. But I suspect that option is rarely used when the debt itself is discharged in BK.

Usually they only roll that cannon out when there is other litigation pursued by the debtor to escape the debt besides bankruptcy.

Cause logic would tend to say, if the person is bankrupt, they don't have the capacity to pay it back, so if you pursue them criminally, you are essentially throwing them directly in jail, and that would be bad P.R. for the casinos.

I wouldn't worry about it until you have to, in the meantime, enjoy life.

P.S. I read a book once about the casinos in AC, I got the impression that Steve Wynn's casinos especially hated to get stiffed on markers and would pursue a scorched earth collections strategy to try and get you. Borgata is 50% owned by MGM Mirage, his successor company, so maybe there is something to that.

[HHM]

The other question, do you live in Nevada?

[NoTomatoCan]

Having been where you are (but with even more owed on markers) I feel for you. Scary as hell. Here is what I can tell you...

The current policy of the Clark County (Las Vegas) DA and Bad Check Division is to NOT criminally prosecute IF you file for BK prior to them receiving the complaint. You can call them up and ask and they will tell you that (I did this - twice - just to make sure I got the same answer). You can see the Bad Check Complaint Form on their web site, and at the bottom is a section that asks if the debtor has filed for BK. I also spoke with several Casino Marker lawyers in LV who told me the same thing (yeah, there are guys out there who specialize in this!).
There are a handful of cases out there from a few years ago where the Clark County DA and Bad Check Division was deemed to essentially be a state sponsored collection agency for the casinos and were found in violation of the automatic stay - hence their adoption of this policy.

I can not speak for how they would handle this in Indiana. Even if it is the same family of casinos, it is likely handled by a different attorney, with different policies.

This next part is opinion (based on my personal experience)... If you have been a long time "good customer" to these casinos, and have paid back markers of over $100k over the years, chances are you will not get pursued criminally. Like yourself, I had a good history of paying back my markers.

My attorney was actually very good about ensuring the casino got proper notice, and then followed up with the attorney handling the case. Very positive outcome.

I am in a CH13 (hence my late response to your post - I generally hang out in the CH13 forum). Not sure if that would make a difference or not, since the automatic stay protects me during the duration of my case.

Good luck to you, and feel free to PM me if you would like any specifics or have additional questions.