HELP! Exemption question

[justfiveofus]

So we filed pro se and today was our 341. The trustee was rude and unhelpful but she said that we need to change our exemptions because we weren't eligible to use our states exemptions but rather needed to figure out where we'd be eligible to use exemptions from (which I'm assuming is in our previous state since that's the only place I've lived in the last 30 years and my hubby the last 12 years). Any way, I'm assuming she wants the exemptions schedule revised? I asked her and she just said, "I can't give you legal advice." I tried to ask her another question, she said "you better figure it out if you want to keep your stuff". RUDE!

Any way, do you all think I'm heading in the correct direction of what she wants?

[mrskal]

More details, where do you live now, how long have you lived there?

[justfiveofus]

We live in Iowa, and have since the very beginning of March. My husband and I actually moved all of his stuff the middle of February but then the kids and I loaded up the house in March and came out.

[mrskal]

Well, I am new to the whole process and currently have my spouse in Florida while I am in Illinois. I can only use Illinois exemptions if we ended up doing it in Florida. I think the law said, use exemptions of the state your were in the two years previous. I also think that was a Florida law. May not apply to other states. I dont know anything about forms yet, as I have not even filed. Illilnois is better for me than Florida anyway. What state did you move from? Hopefully others will help out here, as I am curious how this works too.

[starr4law]

"Which state exemptions (or Federal)" is a very tricky question. Even Trustees do not often know how to calculate it

First you would need to share where you moved from before being able to help out. Usually you can only use Iowa exemptions if you are a "resident." However, I believe that as long as a person intends to reside in Iowa and have a domicile, they are automatically a resident. But, that could be superceded by your previous state's rules.

[justfiveofus]

We moved from Oregon to Iowa. She said for sure that we couldn't use the Iowa one so I assume since we have only ever lived in two states that if we can't use the Iowa one we should use the previous one.

This is so irritating because we can not ask an attorney due to having made payment arrangements on our filing fee. So, according to the court we 'can not pay anyone for services in relation to the bankrtupcy'. So I can't pay an attorney to ask them and no one seems to know.

[justfiveofus]

Starr you gave me an idea. Can I just use the federal exemptions? The largest thing we have exempted is my husbands public employees retirement fund and thats only somewhere in the neighborhood of 15K. We're keeping our cars but neither of them have equity, other than that we don't have much in clothes, no expensive jewlery (wedding bands but the large diamond in mine fell out right after we filed so they're worth almost nothing), no guns, no huge savings accounts, nothing.

[Pandora]

Starr you gave me an idea. Can I just use the federal exemptions? The largest thing we have exempted is my husbands public employees retirement fund and thats only somewhere in the neighborhood of 15K. We're keeping our cars but neither of them have equity, other than that we don't have much in clothes, no expensive jewlery (wedding bands but the large diamond in mine fell out right after we filed so they're worth almost nothing), no guns, no huge savings accounts, nothing.

It may be that you have to be living there for a certain amount of time before you can claim residency. From what I've read, you cannot use federal exemptions in Iowa. http://www.legalconsumer.com/bankrup...law.php?&ST=IA

[justfiveofus]

So if I read this right I need to use the Oregon exemptions. This is such a pain I wish I could just pay a lawyer.

[justfiveofus]

Okay sorry another quick question here. If my vehicle has zero equity, do I have to exempt it?

[Pandora]

your vehicle has value if you own it outright. If you still owe on it, and want to keep it, you still have to put it in the forms. Everything you own has some value so you have to exempt everything. You need to look under NADA and Kelly Blue Book to get the value of your vehicles. When you fill out the paperwork and have to list valuations for everything, you can use garage sale prices for items such as clothing, toys, your furniture, appliances, etc.

Is there any way you can try to work this so you can hire an attorney?

[justfiveofus]

I'll just have to not pay a couple of other things and just take my other $150 and pay the rest of our court fees. This is too complicated but it's okay because honestly it'll STILL end up being less than if we paid attorney's fees. There's an attorney in town that charges $25 for 1/2 hour and I think that's about all I'd need him for since all of the paperwork is filled out I just need to know which exemptions to use.

And I'm confused about my husbands retirement account. Thanks for all your input!

[starr4law]

Hmmmm . . . I am thinking that actually you WOULD use Federal Exemptions. See, you are not a resident of Oregon any longer, so you do not qualify for Oregon exemptions. You do not meet the qualifications for Iowa exemptions (well, I think that you do, but clearly the Trustee disagrees and you probably do not want to write a memorandum in reply to her objection). If you don't qualify ANYWHERE, then by default wouldn't you use Federal (if she is saying that you are considered to be an "Oregon" resident, and Oregon requires you to NOT be a resident at the time of filing to use Federal exemptions). Hmmmm . . . I am going to keep digging to see if I find anything more useful than Bond v. Turner.

Wait, look at this:

2. Debtor may use only the federal bankruptcy exemptions. Example: A debtor for whom
Arizona is the applicable state and who is not a resident of Arizona on the date of filing.

Arizona has the SAME rule as Oregon about not using the state exemption if don't actually live in the state regardless of the 720 rule

I say Federal!

[Pandora]

Hmmmm . . . I am thinking that actually you WOULD use Federal Exemptions. See, you are not a resident of Oregon any longer, so you do not qualify for Oregon exemptions. You do not meet the qualifications for Iowa exemptions (well, I think that you do, but clearly the Trustee disagrees and you probably do not want to write a memorandum in reply to her objection). If you don't qualify ANYWHERE, then by default wouldn't you use Federal (if she is saying that you are considered to be an "Oregon" resident, and Oregon requires you to NOT be a resident at the time of filing to use Federal exemptions). Hmmmm . . . I am going to keep digging to see if I find anything more useful than Bond v. Turner.

Wait, look at this:

2. Debtor may use only the federal bankruptcy exemptions. Example: A debtor for whom
Arizona is the applicable state and who is not a resident of Arizona on the date of filing.

Arizona has the SAME rule as Oregon about not using the state exemption if don't actually live in the state regardless of the 720 rule

I say Federal!

ok - so explain then if the Trustee is stating they cannot file as residents under Iowa - and in your previous post you're stating they can use domicile over residency as the claim - yet Iowa does not allow for federal exemptions except where noted (soc security, wage garnishments, retirements etc) - then how are you figuring she can claim federal exemptions? She would have to claim under her previous state of residence and use their filings - its clearly noted under Iowa BK law.

To the OP - did you originally file BK in Iowa or in Oregon prior to your move? I guess it doesnt matter in either case because legally you are not a resident of Iowa according to its residency laws - even if you have a domicile there. Thats what the trustee is saying - so you will have to use Oregons exemptions in your filings - as it states in Iowa law.

Or am I not understanding it correctly?

[Pandora]

Starr4law:

how are you getting around the first 2 - in order to use the last one? Thats the part I'm not understanding.

From Oregons BK laws:

The state you use for your exemptions is:

* The state you lived in for the 730 days (2 years) before filing; or
* If you did not live in a single state in the previous 2 years you use the state where you lived the majority of the 180 period preceding the 2 year period; or
* If the preceding renders you ineligible for any exemptions then the debtor is allowed to choose the federal exemptions.


How would the OP be rendered ineligible to file under their previous states exemptions when she stated she lived there for 30 years?