What about dependents' assets?

[so-beyond-broke]

Hello Everyone:

Are the assets or rather belongings of a debtor's dependents (kids) suppose to be included in the BK? Such as their clothes, books, toys, etc? I figure maybe their furniture - t.v. beds.

Are you allowed to have more than 1 t.v. and computer when you file bk? I think that its unrealistic to expect to have 1 tv in an apt with several rooms and people. And computers are no longer a luxury but rather a necessity. My kids are in junior high and moving on to high school in September, so they always need to do research and type up papers. As for me I can argue that I need a computer as a tool of a trade - as a teacher. Besides these things that I am mentioning are at least 4 yrs old.

Any thoughts,

so-beyond-broke

[Danielle1981]

You're lucky mine are about 8 years old and 15 years old. LOL....wonder how much they could get for those?

[Danielle1981]

That is a good question....what if you have kids that work and buy their own stuff? Do you include that? I mean you didn't buy it but it is in your house.

[FlaMama]

assets

My experience--
I filed in Oct. We HAD to include everything, including things related to DH's job (he's military), our kids furniture and toys,etc. Doesn't matter if you got it free or not, what matters is what it is worth to the Trustee if he wants to sell your stuff to payback your creditors. I have a house full of furniture I got free but I still had to attach a value to it.

Lucky for me, the Trustee DISPUTES the values we put on our household goods. I am not sure what happens next, I guess a appraiser comes to my house.

[bkfiler]

My experience--
I filed in Oct. We HAD to include everything, including things related to DH's job (he's military), our kids furniture and toys,etc. Doesn't matter if you got it free or not, what matters is what it is worth to the Trustee if he wants to sell your stuff to payback your creditors. I have a house full of furniture I got free but I still had to attach a value to it.

Lucky for me, the Trustee DISPUTES the values we put on our household goods. I am not sure what happens next, I guess a appraiser comes to my house.

did you file under the old law or new laws?

let us know what happens and what he is objecting to.

keep us informed.

[StaciMM]

I don't know the answer-regarding things belonging to your children. I am certain that a 4 year old computer is not worth a whole lot...

[LostinMi]

I was told that we had to list the children's assets. My kids have their own horses that were given to them from grandparents.... and I had to list and exempt them as my assets.

[FlaMama]

I filed under the old laws. The letter I got states that the Trustee objects to the value we placed on our exempted property. I assume that's our household items because the only other property we have is our cars and house, and our cars are clearly negative equity and we live in Fla, so there is no limit on household equity.

[StaciMM]

I think in FL, you're only allowed $1000 each in personal property? I hear there are often objections on that...

[SinkingFast]

http://frwebgate.access.gpo.gov/cgi-...=f:publ008.109

SEC. 313. DEFINITION OF HOUSEHOLD GOODS AND ANTIQUES.

(a) Definition.--Section 522(f) of title 11, United States Code, is
amended by adding at the end the following:
``(4)(A) Subject to subparagraph (B), for purposes of paragraph
(1)(B), the term `household goods' means--
``(i) clothing;
``(ii) furniture;
``(iii) appliances;
``(iv) 1 radio;
``(v) 1 television;
``(vi) 1 VCR;
``(vii) linens;
``(viii) china;
``(ix) crockery;
``(x) kitchenware;
``(xi) educational materials and educational equipment
primarily for the use of minor dependent children of the debtor; (xii) medical equipment and supplies;
``(xiii) furniture exclusively for the use of minor
children, or elderly or disabled dependents of the debtor;
``(xiv) personal effects (including the toys and hobby
equipment of minor dependent children and wedding rings) of the
debtor and the dependents of the debtor; and
``(xv) 1 personal computer and related equipment.

``(B) The term `household goods' does not include--
``(i) works of art (unless by or of the debtor, or any
relative of the debtor);
``(ii) electronic entertainment equipment with a fair market
value of more than $500 in the aggregate (except 1 television, 1
radio, and 1 VCR);
``(iii) items acquired as antiques with a fair market value
of more than $500 in the aggregate;
``(iv) jewelry with a fair market value of more than $500 in
the aggregate (except wedding rings); and
``(v) a computer (except as otherwise provided for in this
section), motor vehicle (including a tractor or lawn tractor),
boat, or a motorized recreational device, conveyance, vehicle,
watercraft, or aircraft.''.

(b) <<NOTE: Reports.>> Study.--Not later than 2 years after the date
of enactment of this Act, the Director of the Executive Office for
United States Trustees shall submit a report to the Committee on the
Judiciary of the Senate and the Committee on the Judiciary of the House
of Representatives containing its findings regarding utilization of the definition of household goods, as defined in section 522(f)(4) of title 11, United States Code, as added by subsection (a), with respect to the avoidance of nonpossessory, nonpurchase money security interests
in household goods under section 522(f)(1)(B) of title 11, United States Code, and the impact such section 522(f)(4) has had on debtors and on the bankruptcy courts. Such report may include recommendations for amendments to such section 522(f)(4) consistent with the Director's
findings.

These are notes from the Senate Bill that became law. Evidently our children's things are to be included as well.

[bkfiler]

i havnt read all the posts but if you own the kid then their things are yours no? a child cant own something. its yours by law.

child is under 18 years old. after that its a matter of who pays for what just like if you were married or living with something (in sin )

this is my best guess.

[SinkingFast]

I fully expected to list their furniture. I thought that was a given. But I had read at another website, the kids' things were the kids' things. I took that to mean their personal effects such as clothes, books, CD's, posters, and such.

Our kids own many things they have bought for themselves. Either with money earned in some way, working, house sitting, or babysitting, or gift money. Grandparents don't shop for our kids any more. They just give the kids money and let them pick what they want.

Parents don't technically "own" children. We care for them. See to their needs. Nurture them. Are responsible for them. But,........ Children are most definitely their own persons.

[bkfiler]

not if you beat them correctly.

also, id make them sign a 18 year declaration, using their foot print right after birthing, stating that their belongings are mine under any circumstances.


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