I think I messed up...

[uh-oh]

Was told by a lawyer, other than our goober of a lawyer, that our case was closed. So I spent some of our tax refund feeling that there were items that the children needed. We had went beyond squeek just trying to keep the stupid house and well...kids don't stop growing

Now I find out that it was discharged not closed. I am assuming they want our tax return - all of it Our goober lawyer won't return calls or emails unless someone outside their office calls or emails them.

So Am I going to prison or what

Just a note that all we let go was the house. We kept the crappy van with it's 3rd transmission and over 200,000 miles. Is this going to matter at all?? Or am I up a creek??

[SleeplessInMI]

Did the Trustee mention anything about your tax returns at your 341 meeting?

[uh-oh]

That we need to let our lawyer know when we got it. Our lawyer acted like no big deal. We never received papers stating that we owed our tax return and I guess I wasn't thinking.

I really don't want to go to jail or anything like that and we have nothing - both our vehicles have over 200,000 miles. We still owe over $2000 for 1 of them.

Husband just had emergency dental work and we are back in a hole again.

I messed up huh?

[SleeplessInMI]

I look forward to seeing your posts from the slammer...
j/k

I doubt you will end up in the pokey
Hopefully, you won't even hear anything about it. You did keep all the receipts from everything you purchased with your tax refund money?

[uh-oh]

Most of them. I mean like last night I spent over $60 in just diapers - adds up real quick. I know the trustee is thinking they have x # of kids and should be able to make it, but we are also raising my sister's 3 kids 50 - 75% of the time. Funny how she still took the tax deduction.

[Graphic]

Well they might not make a big deal out of it if it wa your lawyers fault and you spent it on 'necessity items'

However, I don't know how they will like the fact you are raising someone elses kids if you don't have custody or something. I don't think that's wrong personally but I don't know how the court will view it.

[ODDBALL]

The worst that can happen if the trustee wants your return is that he could dismiss your discharge . I was told this by an attorney at the firm that I retained for my BK7. I know that your case will not be closed until the trustee gets everything that he wants. If your attorney is not returning your calls, try to talk to someone else in the office. Good Luck!!!!!

[bilbo]

I would make sure you have the amount of the refund to give the trustee. I know my trustee has REVOKED BKs MONTHS after discharge when the filer did not turn over the goods as requested. When he did this he also filed a motion to prevent them from refiling. Pacer is such a wealth of information.....

Let your lawyer handle it. I would think he could explain the situation and maybe payment could be worked out for however much of it you do not have. Also..... the trustee is only entitled to a percentage of your refund based on when you filed.

It also may depend on how much your refund was. Some trustees won't ask for them unless it is over a certain amount(mine wasn't unless it was over 1,000)...others want any penny they can egt

[SinkingFast]

According to the Census Bureau and IRS definitions, people related by blood and/or marriage residing in the same domicile are members of the same household. You can have several households within one domicile, such as college roommates living together. Even though you do not have legal custody of your sister's children living with you, they are related to you and your spouse by blood and/or marriage. Therefore, based on the amount of time they spend with you, it could be argued that your sister's children are indeed members of your household.

Regardless of legal custody and dependent exemptions, your attny should also have an effective arguement for your expenses incurred on the children's behalf. Whether or not the Trustee will see it that way is all together a different story. But, it's a good arguement, none the less.

[edwards2]

I have also heard it depends on the attitude of the trustee and other posts have said they received a letter from the trustee reminding them to turn over their tax refunds. We didnt have that problem because we filed in March and our 341 was in May so our tax refund was long gone. I think I would sit tight and see what happens. And I agree with sinkingfast about the financial responsibility about keeping your sister's children. We all think the trustees should have a heart but most or them don't. They are ruthless about salvaging some financial gain out of the BK. I didnt pay any attention to ours whether it was closed or not; just that it was discharged, but then again the tax refund was not an issue for us. Out of curiosity the trustee will actually discharge a case before he gets his hand on the refund?

[ODDBALL]

I have also heard it depends on the attitude of the trustee and other posts have said they received a letter from the trustee reminding them to turn over their tax refunds. We didnt have that problem because we filed in March and our 341 was in May so our tax refund was long gone. I think I would sit tight and see what happens. And I agree with sinkingfast about the financial responsibility about keeping your sister's children. We all think the trustees should have a heart but most or them don't. They are ruthless about salvaging some financial gain out of the BK. I didnt pay any attention to ours whether it was closed or not; just that it was discharged, but then again the tax refund was not an issue for us. Out of curiosity the trustee will actually discharge a case before he gets his hand on the refund?

edwards2, has your bk case been closed, or is it pending closing. I think the issue is whether the trustee will CLOSE a case or not if he has not received any assets that he may be waiting for. When I filed my bk in June 2005, my 2004 refund was okay because it was already spent. I was also told that it would be likely that I would have to give up a portion (if not all) of my 2005 income tax refund if the trustee requested. Fortunately for me, the trustee did not ask for my 2005 tax returns, but my case is discharged and closed!!!

You are right that the trustee actually discharges a case before he gets his hands on the refund, but he will not close the case. The case will remain open until all assets that he is interested in have been received. If he does not receive those assets, he can dismiss your discharge, and make it where you cannot refile. It is not over until the case is officially CLOSED!!!!

[StaciMM]

1st, no jail-I think that is pretty certain! Worst case scenario is your BK may not get closed and I suppose the trustee could reverse your discharge. (NOt sure that he can.)

Unless you filed 12/31 (and if you did, you wouldn't be discharged yet) then all of your refund can't be taken by the trustee. Its a % based on when you filed. If the trustee has right to claim a set amount, it won't really matter that you spent it on needs vs. wants. You might be able to work out payment arrangements?

Regarding your sisters kids, if they live with you for the majority of the year, you may have a right to claim them as dependents. It all depends on who provides the majority of their support, and since rent/housing is the largest dollar item in most cases-that tends to determine who gets the exemption.

[StaciMM]

My understanding is the trustee can't hold up the discharge for assets-but all the discharge means is the creditors can't come after you for money. They could still collect from the BK estate, thru the trustee.

Out of curiosity the trustee will actually discharge a case before he gets his hand on the refund?

[ODDBALL]

Ok, so I did some more poking around on this matter. I found out that it is a FEDERAL OFFENSE to cash an income tax return that the trustee is waiting on. I also found out that even if a case is closed, that YOU ARE STILL REQUIRED to send the trustee a copy of your income tax, or notify him/her with questions regarding taxes. A discharge can be REVOKED if assets are not turned over to the trustee by the time alloted. Revocation appears to be a lengthy process, and the trustee's office generally like to know ahead of time so that they can start the process early. Also, if the asset is a tax return, the trustee usually likes business taken care of by April 15th. I called a trustee's office (not my own), and had a lengthy conversation with the individual that handles situations like this. She went on to say that every case is different. Just because the trustee wants to see your tax returns, doesn't mean they will take them. The individual told me of a case that a person was receiving a $4600 refund, and that the trustee didn't want any of it. Instead, she said that person would be getting a nice letter thanking them for sending in the tax returns. I was also told that once the revocation proceedings begin, you have to appear in court. You could face a $50,000 fine, and/or imprisonment. I'm not trying to scare anyone, but in the beginning, I had asked my own attorney's office about this, and was told that a discharge could be revoked an individual didn't turn over information that the trustee requested.

I think the best thing to do would be to call the trustee's office and ask questions. If you call the trustee that handled your case, do not use your real name. My case has been discharged and closed, and I did not provide my trustee with a copy of my returns, so now I'm a little shaky.

All I can say is Good Luck, and keep posting so other's can learn from someone else's experience.