What to do when a Trustee does not respond/file - 10 days after 341 and not a peep...

[researchnerd]

gman, you're right about the Presumed Abuse. I think it was automatic because we were well over median, although we had ~$300 negative DMI if I recall correctly. As someone here told me, if we hadn't been flagged for presumed abuse, the UST wouldn't have been doing his job.

The UST did indeed request additional info -- our most recent tax return (which they already had), 3-4 months of pay statements and bank statements, documentation of expenses (I just used the bank statements), and a short letter explaining the circumstances which caused us to convert from Ch13 to Ch7. I think they just wanted to be sure that we weren't hiding any income or exaggerating expenses.

[BKlooker]

As others have said, it sounds like you just have a district that is slow to update their stuff. If there was a big problem, you would likely know it by now (my 2 cents anyway). Enjoy the long weekend and maybe check back online on Monday evening just to see if there is any movement

[gman]

I'm also in the Northern District. We had our 341 on 8/25, and didn't receive the panel Trustee's Report of No Distribution until 9/16 - more than three weeks later. I agree that the Report of No Distribution is important, as it essentially tells your creditors that you have nothing of value for them to take.

Concurrently, our UST's Notice of Presumed Abuse was filed 9/7 and then formally abandoned on 10/5. Talk about a rollercoaster! Hang in there.

Wow. That is an interesting roller coaster ride for sure - and an interesting sequence:

8-25 = 341 Hearing
9-7 = Presumed Abuse Filed
9-16 = Report of No Distribution
10-5 = Presumed Abuse Abandoned

Curious as to what was the possible reason you had for the Presumed Abuse being filed. If you can share in the public forum since your case is now likely discharged - great...if not, perhaps you can send me a private message?

Also, did you receive any requests for additional documentation that cleared up your Presumption of Abuse?

I am going to guess you were an over-the-median income filer, like me, and may have been cutting it close on the Means Test, and this is where the Presumption of Abuse was coming from. Am I right, or was it something else that caught the Trustee's eye?

Thanks for sharing!

[researchnerd]

I'm also in the Northern District. We had our 341 on 8/25, and didn't receive the panel Trustee's Report of No Distribution until 9/16 - more than three weeks later. I agree that the Report of No Distribution is important, as it essentially tells your creditors that you have nothing of value for them to take.

Concurrently, our UST's Notice of Presumed Abuse was filed 9/7 and then formally abandoned on 10/5. Talk about a rollercoaster! Hang in there.

[tobee43]

I'd guess they were up on PACER sooner than that. I seem to recall you did not have a PACER account. By the way - probably a good thing. It can be an OBSESSION - haha.

Anyway - it just seems strange that the cases on my 341 hearing date are not posting any Report of No Distribution filings for anyone - when typically people have been getting results in 48 hours. Oh well, guess its time to simply sit and wait.

LOL!! yes, you know i'm anti PACER..because it drives people CRAZY at such a stressful time.

g...i know this is hard for you...but try and relax and eat turkey and football..k... hopefully you will hear shortly...i hope for you..

[gman]

we rec'd BOTH notices on day 62.....we did not use pacer...the order was signed within 24 hours of the 60th day....so actually day 61....then sent out in the mail to us which reached us in one day...day 62....BOTH are signed and dated the same day...again...it's day 61....but i don't how it showed up on pacer...i would think it would have since both orders were signed on day 61.

I'd guess they were up on PACER sooner than that. I seem to recall you did not have a PACER account. By the way - probably a good thing. It can be an OBSESSION - haha.

Anyway - it just seems strange that the cases on my 341 hearing date are not posting any Report of No Distribution filings for anyone - when typically people have been getting results in 48 hours. Oh well, guess its time to simply sit and wait.

[tobee43]

So this "Report of No Distribution" could be immediate or could literally drag out for all 60 days....correct? Just making sure I have the legal timeline down pat.

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It was this "Report of Non Distribution" that has historically been posted within 48 hours of the 341 in my district - yet has not happened on any of the cases that took place the day I had my 341.

we rec'd BOTH notices on day 62.....we did not use pacer...the order was signed within 24 hours of the 60th day....so actually day 61....then sent out in the mail to us which reached us in one day...day 62....BOTH are signed and dated the same day...again...it's day 61....but i don't how it showed up on pacer...i would think it would have since both orders were signed on day 61.

[gman]

that is correct.......personally for me that's the MOST important notice to receive....1. the discharge....where the debor is grated the discharge under section 727 of title 11, of usc (bk code) and 2. (to me it was the MOST important notice) which was the order approving trustee's report of no distribution....meaning that it was ordered that the trustee has approved the estate as "closed"....and the trustee is discharging and relieving his/her trust...and that all deficient pleadings that have not been cured are considered moot.....

So this "Report of No Distribution" could be immediate or could literally drag out for all 60 days....correct? Just making sure I have the legal timeline down pat.

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It was this "Report of Non Distribution" that has historically been posted within 48 hours of the 341 in my district - yet has not happened on any of the cases that took place the day I had my 341.

[tobee43]

One question though: I see many people on here 'celebrate' when their Trustee files a Chapter 7 Trustee's Report of No Distribution - No Funds.

From reading the wording of one of these - it appears this is a motion that shows the Trustee is really "moving on" and releasing himself from the file, leaving only the Creditors to be of concern.

IS MY ASSUMPTION CORRECT?

IF/WHEN THIS HAPPENS, IS THE LIKELIHOOD PRETTY MUCH NEAR ZERO THAT THE TRUSTEE OBJECTS TO EITHER (A) PROPERTY EXEMPTIONS AND/OR (B) DISMISSING THE CASE UNDER 707(B)?

that is correct.......personally for me that's the MOST important notice to receive....1. the discharge....where the debor is grated the discharge under section 727 of title 11, of usc (bk code) and 2. (to me it was the MOST important notice) which was the order approving trustee's report of no distribution....meaning that it was ordered that the trustee has approved the estate as "closed"....and the trustee is discharging and relieving his/her trust...and that all deficient pleadings that have not been cured are considered moot.....

[gman]

One question though: I see many people on here 'celebrate' when their Trustee files a Chapter 7 Trustee's Report of No Distribution - No Funds.

From reading the wording of one of these - it appears this is a motion that shows the Trustee is really "moving on" and releasing himself from the file, leaving only the Creditors to be of concern.

IS MY ASSUMPTION CORRECT?

IF/WHEN THIS HAPPENS, IS THE LIKELIHOOD PRETTY MUCH NEAR ZERO THAT THE TRUSTEE OBJECTS TO EITHER (A) PROPERTY EXEMPTIONS AND/OR (B) DISMISSING THE CASE UNDER 707(B)?

[tobee43]

I found a good explanation of the BANKRUPTCY TIMELINE on this website:

http://home.comcast.net/~wmetzen130031/timelinenew.htm

From what I see here, it really now boils down to objections by (a) the Trustee and (b) Creditors.

+ The TRUSTEE can object to my PROPERTY EXEMPTIONS on SCHEDULE C within 30 days of the 341.

+ The CREDITORS (not the Trustee) can object to having a specific debt discharged within 60 days of the 341.

+ The CREDITORS (not the Trustee) can object to having a all debts discharged within 60 days of the 341.

+ The TRUSTEE can can move to dismiss case for substantial abuse under §707(b) within 60 days of the 341.

In my case, I doubt the CREDITORS make any motions, and since the Trustee did not make a motion within 10 days to question the Means Test, I doubt he will try to do anything concerning substantial abuse. This leaves the question of PROPERTY EXEMPTIONS (and specifically the IRA in question) on the table for the next 17 days.

Do I have this right?

well both 1 and 4 could apply and one would be consider an assumption of abuse one way or the other...but let's think positively...

for the creditors time line is in reference to the time period preceding the 341...so you should be good on that one.

[gman]

I found a good explanation of the BANKRUPTCY TIMELINE on this website:

http://home.comcast.net/~wmetzen130031/timelinenew.htm

From what I see here, it really now boils down to objections by (a) the Trustee and (b) Creditors.

+ The TRUSTEE can object to my PROPERTY EXEMPTIONS on SCHEDULE C within 30 days of the 341.

+ The CREDITORS (not the Trustee) can object to having a specific debt discharged within 60 days of the 341.

+ The CREDITORS (not the Trustee) can object to having a all debts discharged within 60 days of the 341.

+ The TRUSTEE can can move to dismiss case for substantial abuse under §707(b) within 60 days of the 341.

In my case, I doubt the CREDITORS make any motions, and since the Trustee did not make a motion within 10 days to question the Means Test, I doubt he will try to do anything concerning substantial abuse. This leaves the question of PROPERTY EXEMPTIONS (and specifically the IRA in question) on the table for the next 17 days.

Do I have this right?

[tobee43]

Yes - I filed Pro Se.

Called the Trustee's office. No update on my case. Secretary said the Trustee has a "bunch of files he is working on." Her tone sounded like this was business as usual.

This makes me feel 99% certain that there will not be a PRESUMPTION OF ABUSE filing because (a) it would have been on PACER or (b) she would have mentioned it. It's been 13 days so I think I am in the clear here.

I checked a few others who had 341 on the same day as me. Still the same. No updates on any files (good or bad.)

Looks like I simply wait 47 more days and see...

One question though: I see many people on here 'celebrate' when their Trustee files a Chapter 7 Trustee's Report of No Distribution - No Funds.

From reading the wording of one of these - it appears this is a motion that shows the Trustee is really "moving on" and releasing himself from the file.

1. IS MY ASSUMPTION CORRECT?

2. IS THERE ANY DEADLINE FOR THIS TO BE FILED? IS IT 60 DAYS OR SHORTER?

The strange thing is the track record for seeing this kind of motion is typically 48 hours after the 341 in my District. Yet the whole batch of debtors that went in on my date have no update.

I have not received any phone calls or snail mail from the Trustee requesting more documentation so far.

i have a tendency to be with you on this one.....

many times it's the one's that have problems with they hopefully will notify first...i hope, i hope....

maybe that trustee went on vacation, or was out sick...one doesn't know really at this point, just that it has been verified there are many files to be attended to.

i'm going try and stay as positive on this as possible... i'm just hoping you hear either way soon!

[gman]

Yes - I filed Pro Se.

Called the Trustee's office. No update on my case. Secretary said the Trustee has a "bunch of files he is working on." Her tone sounded like this was business as usual.

This makes me feel 99% certain that there will not be a PRESUMPTION OF ABUSE filing because (a) it would have been on PACER or (b) she would have mentioned it. It's been 13 days so I think I am in the clear here.

I checked a few others who had 341 on the same day as me. Still the same. No updates on any files (good or bad.)

Looks like I simply wait 47 more days and see...

One question though: I see many people on here 'celebrate' when their Trustee files a Chapter 7 Trustee's Report of No Distribution - No Funds.

From reading the wording of one of these - it appears this is a motion that shows the Trustee is really "moving on" and releasing himself from the file.

1. IS MY ASSUMPTION CORRECT?

2. IS THERE ANY DEADLINE FOR THIS TO BE FILED? IS IT 60 DAYS OR SHORTER?

The strange thing is the track record for seeing this kind of motion is typically 48 hours after the 341 in my District. Yet the whole batch of debtors that went in on my date have no update.

I have not received any phone calls or snail mail from the Trustee requesting more documentation so far.

[tobee43]

the UST can wait until day 60 to file and objection, it just depends on what he is objecting to. 707(b) they should file something within 10 days. but 'totality of the circumstances' they can wait until day 60 and it's basically the same objection.

i absolutely agree with this....it would be the 60 days gman...

also...didn't you file pro se?????

i thought you did...and if YOU did...i would call the trustee's office and get the status...because normally, if you did have an atty, they would know what and where the situation is or was....

we have gotten to know each other fairly well g....and i would HATE to see you going thru anymore stress than need be....