Stay & pay

[kar]

The bank does not want your house. You are in control of this situation. The note/debt will be discharged. You are under NO obligation to pay it. Don't reaffirm anything. If down the road you want to bail on the property , the only action they can take is to foreclose on the house. Other than that, they can't do anything else.

Oh I don't think it's required for me to reaffirm. I have spoken to my attorney about it and told him I didn't want to reaffirm the mortgage. I owe $220K o the first and $14K in HELOC and house valued at $130 (if I'm lucky). I definitely going to try and NOT reaffirm the mortgage or HELOC at all costs.

I was just curious about what happens if you do NOT reaffirm and pay for many years and eventully have some equity could WF kick me out...lol

Thanks again for your help!

Sorry OP for the hijack

[Freddy03]

My very limited experience with Wells is, they suck. So there's that.

I'd preface this with my Attorney advised me of things that were at odds of the general consensus of some of the more knowledgeable posters here.
So there's that too....

But I found this...
"A new ruling by an Orlando bankruptcy judged ends the option to "ride through" a mortgage debt. The judge said that if a debtor wants to keep real property after bankruptcy the debtor has to reaffirm their personal obligation to pay the mortgage debt just like they have to do with their cars and other personal property. The judge cited a ruling by the Eleventh Circuit Court of Appeals that debtors mus act to either surrender or reaffirm a debt if the debtor desires to retain the collateral."

Great When I spoke w/ my attorney he stated it wouldn't be a problem to NOT reaffirm the mortgage.

I was going to try and get a non recourse loan mod after discharge.

[Chowder]

yes Wells. I believe I'm Middle District.

My very limited experience with Wells is, they suck. So there's that.

I'd preface this with my Attorney advised me of things that were at odds of the general consensus of some of the more knowledgeable posters here.
So there's that too....

But I found this...
"A new ruling by an Orlando bankruptcy judged ends the option to "ride through" a mortgage debt. The judge said that if a debtor wants to keep real property after bankruptcy the debtor has to reaffirm their personal obligation to pay the mortgage debt just like they have to do with their cars and other personal property. The judge cited a ruling by the Eleventh Circuit Court of Appeals that debtors mus act to either surrender or reaffirm a debt if the debtor desires to retain the collateral."

[Freddy03]

And you're in that 11th Circuit.....with Wells Fargo..........

yes Wells. I believe I'm Middle District.

[Freddy03]

Freddy - is that 90K upside down from the value to 1st mortgage owed or are you including that 14K in there? I dont know what your house is valued at to what you owe the 1st, but I would still not pay the 2nd, save the payment up, and then offer to settle with the 2nd for release of the lien. You figure 10% would be $1400 and 20% $2800 - I'd give it a go before paying every single month towards it - reaffirmation or not - chances are extremely slim that the 2nd will foreclose on the house. If you're required to reaffirm due to your district - then why cant you reaffirm the 1st only and leave the 2nd out of it - settling later for release? I just dont understand how that part of the BK protection can be made mandatory - thats part of why you file Ch. 7 and do a "retain and pay", so to make it mandatory that one must reaffirm seems very strange when most others across the US can just pay and stay, being able to walk away should they need to.

Definitely ask your lawyer to work out every angle possible before agreeing to anything.

Oh I don't think it's required for me to reaffirm. I have spoken to my attorney about it and told him I didn't want to reaffirm the mortgage. I owe $220K o the first and $14K in HELOC and house valued at $130 (if I'm lucky). I definitely going to try and NOT reaffirm the mortgage or HELOC at all costs.

I was just curious about what happens if you do NOT reaffirm and pay for many years and eventully have some equity could WF kick me out...lol

Thanks again for your help!

Sorry OP for the hijack

[Pandora]

This is what makes me nervous about not reaffirming my 90K underwater house...lol

I do have a HELOC for 14K with same company that I plan on continuing to pay.

I just don't want to stay in the house for 10 or more years and then WF says ok it's time to go even if I'm current.

Freddy - is that 90K upside down from the value to 1st mortgage owed or are you including that 14K in there? I dont know what your house is valued at to what you owe the 1st, but I would still not pay the 2nd, save the payment up, and then offer to settle with the 2nd for release of the lien. You figure 10% would be $1400 and 20% $2800 - I'd give it a go before paying every single month towards it - reaffirmation or not - chances are extremely slim that the 2nd will foreclose on the house. If you're required to reaffirm due to your district - then why cant you reaffirm the 1st only and leave the 2nd out of it - settling later for release? I just dont understand how that part of the BK protection can be made mandatory - thats part of why you file Ch. 7 and do a "retain and pay", so to make it mandatory that one must reaffirm seems very strange when most others across the US can just pay and stay, being able to walk away should they need to.

Definitely ask your lawyer to work out every angle possible before agreeing to anything.

[Chowder]

I just don't want to stay in the house for 10 or more years and then WF says ok it's time to go even if I'm current.

And you're in that 11th Circuit.....with Wells Fargo..........

[Freddy03]

Ah... okay - yep I agree with ya - it can be dist. specific re: reaffirmation requirements. I wouldnt want to roll any dice and take a chance of losing my home in that situation - its better to try to settle the 2nd vs. not paying it and taking the chance. I guess that in some instances w/out the reaffirm. regardless if you're current or not on both mortgages, they can ask for the house depending on where you are.

Thank God we were/are able to strip our 2nd in our situation! *whew*

This is what makes me nervous about not reaffirming my 90K underwater house...lol

I do have a HELOC for 14K with same company that I plan on continuing to pay.

I just don't want to stay in the house for 10 or more years and then WF says ok it's time to go even if I'm current.

[Pandora]

Yep. That should read "freddy asked".

Ah... okay - yep I agree with ya - it can be dist. specific re: reaffirmation requirements. I wouldnt want to roll any dice and take a chance of losing my home in that situation - its better to try to settle the 2nd vs. not paying it and taking the chance. I guess that in some instances w/out the reaffirm. regardless if you're current or not on both mortgages, they can ask for the house depending on where you are.

Thank God we were/are able to strip our 2nd in our situation! *whew*

[Chowder]

Yep. That should read "freddy asked".

[Pandora]

Bob asked "what prevents either of them to start the foreclosure process? Anything?". I'd say the few states that don't allow repossession on current/in good standing contracts aside, nothing prevents them from doing so. So you'd basically be rolling the dice. Call me crazy, but playing the odds when you're upside down is one thing, daring them to take your equity is something else.

Justbroke sums it up nicely here....

http://www.bkforum.com/showthread.ph...rming-mortgage

Chowder - you quoted a reply from me that was directed at Freddy's question - not bob's

[Chowder]

I dont believe as long as you are current on BOTH mortgages - regardless if reaffirmed or not - that they could just up and decide to foreclose due to equity - so no to that question.

Bob asked "what prevents either of them to start the foreclosure process? Anything?". I'd say the few states that don't allow repossession on current/in good standing contracts aside, nothing prevents them from doing so. So you'd basically be rolling the dice. Call me crazy, but playing the odds when you're upside down is one thing, daring them to take your equity is something else.

Justbroke sums it up nicely here....

This is District and State-specific. In the 11th Circuit, which includes Georgia, Alabama and Florida, you must reaffirm, redeem, or surrender. However, it's up to the lender to really make noise about you not living up to your intentions.

Foreclosure is a specific State process and if you are paying on time, they can't foreclose. However, if you surrendered it or didn't redeem or reaffirm it during the bankruptcy, in many States, the lender could go back into the Bankruptcy Court to force you to turnover and vacate the property.

http://www.bkforum.com/showthread.php?54998-consequences-of-not-Reaffirming-mortgage

[Freddy03]

I dont believe as long as you are current on BOTH mortgages - regardless if reaffirmed or not - that they could just up and decide to foreclose due to equity - so no to that question. However, if you do not pay your 2nd for whatever reason, reaffirmation or no - eventually if the house gains equity and/or you're paying down the 1st - then yes, the 2nd can foreclose later. Or at least thats my understanding of how it all works

If I'm incorrect - someone feel free to correct.

Thanks that's what I was thinking also.

[Pandora]

I have a question about this since I'm going to "pay and stay".

So even if you are current on the 1st and 2nd and have been paying for years and now have equity what prevents either of them to start the foreclosure process? Anything?

My plan is to pay and stay and after discharge try to a non recourse loan mod and hopefully live happily ever after (in the house)

Thanks

I dont believe as long as you are current on BOTH mortgages - regardless if reaffirmed or not - that they could just up and decide to foreclose due to equity - so no to that question. However, if you do not pay your 2nd for whatever reason, reaffirmation or no - eventually if the house gains equity and/or you're paying down the 1st - then yes, the 2nd can foreclose later. Or at least thats my understanding of how it all works

If I'm incorrect - someone feel free to correct.

[Chowder]

...... have equity .......

You sure you want to dangle that cheddar?