Car loan discahrged in chapter7 BK , can I sell the car now?

[helpmeout]

Spoke with the original BK Attorney. Let me just say: nothing that was said above was remotely close to being correct.

If you are in a similar situation, please send me a private message and I will divulge the advice. Ignore anything that was advised above!

If you sell the car, you will find out just how correct everyone was.

Apparently, your attorney either didn't have all of the information or just gave you very bad advise. Or you didn't bother to ask your attorney and just want to imply that you did and you were right.

Hopefully, anyone who finds themselves in your position where a government agency made a mistake in the paperwork will act more ethically than what you are planning on doing.

[RickSanchez]

Spoke with the original BK Attorney. Let me just say: nothing that was said above was remotely close to being correct.

If you are in a similar situation, please send me a private message and I will divulge the advice. Ignore anything that was advised above!

[helpmeout]

That's the question. Can you sue me for a car loan that was discharged in a BK proceedings? What if I have a bad accident and destroyed the car? In this case too, they would not get the car back. Can they sue me for that?
What r the normal procedures if the lender is not able to re-possesses the car? They take you to court even though the property is considered abandon? ( per my attorney). Keep in mind, there no longer is a legal agreement between me and them. I am looking to hear from people who have a legal background or have been in a similar situation.

Thanks,

Getting into an accident is completely different than deliberately selling a car that is collateral for a loan. The former won't get you into trouble, the latter will.

As for there being no legal agreement, that is where you are wrong. While the part of the agreement to pay the loan is no longer intact due to the BK, the part of the agreement that allows them to take possession of the collateral used for the loan is very much intact and legal.

[helpmeout]

NO, as I said I am thinking of selling to a person outside of the country. I don't think it's even possible to do what you are suggesting as the buyer has ways to remedy the situation.

Has anyone had a situation like mine?

When you moved the title, the DMV made a mistake.

If you compound that mistake by selling the car and NOT paying the loan that the car is collateral for, you will end up having no choice but to pay the loan back. The bankruptcy does not void the lien on the vehicle. If you don't want to bother with the payments anymore, contact the lender and let them know where they can pick up the collateral for their loan to you.

[mommi2many]

You won't find anyone here who has been in a similar situation because, nobody here is this stupid.
Your loan agreement very likely requires you to insure your vechicle so in the event of a wreck the lender will get paid.
If you're still making car payments why does your lawyer consider the property abandoned?
If the lender wishes to force the issue, they'll file a writ of replivin and get a court order requiring you to surrender the auto.
If you fail to comply you'll be in contempt of court as well as facing a lawsuit for fraudulent conversion. Since this happened post discharge your bk filing won't protect you.
Do the easy thing and either surrender the vechicle or maintin payments and make the most of a fresh start.

Well said keepmine!

[keepmine]

That's the question. Can you sue me for a car loan that was discharged in a BK proceedings? What if I have a bad accident and destroyed the car? In this case too, they would not get the car back. Can they sue me for that?
What r the normal procedures if the lender is not able to re-possesses the car? They take you to court even though the property is considered abandon? ( per my attorney). Keep in mind, there no longer is a legal agreement between me and them. I am looking to hear from people who have a legal background or have been in a similar situation.

Thanks,

You won't find anyone here who has been in a similar situation because, nobody here is this stupid.
Your loan agreement very likely requires you to insure your vechicle so in the event of a wreck the lender will get paid.
If you're still making car payments why does your lawyer consider the property abandoned?
If the lender wishes to force the issue, they'll file a writ of replivin and get a court order requiring you to surrender the auto.
If you fail to comply you'll be in contempt of court as well as facing a lawsuit for fraudulent conversion. Since this happened post discharge your bk filing won't protect you.
Do the easy thing and either surrender the vechicle or maintin payments and make the most of a fresh start.

[ValleYum]

I would think if you sell the car "overseas" and end up being sued in court; that this will all come out as fraud. If they win, any judgment/award they receive would be payable by you.

And, if they happen to read this forum, and subpoena computer records... you'd be not just a sitting duck, you'd already be in the oven!

It's just not worth the possible penalty, IMO.

[dneil]

I think that the way you are leaning that you are going to go ahead and do whatever you want. You will be walking a thin line while treading some very turbulent waters. The amount of the loan was discharged, meaning you have no responsibility or obligation to pay. However, the contract between you and whoever the loan is through is still valid. And you basically agreed to the terms of that obligation by not returning the car and continuing payment. If you don't pay on the loan, they will want their property back. You are responsible for the whereabouts of that property. You know what you would be doing is wrong and are hoping for a loophole. While I can understand this, I also think it is a loop hole that you WILL find yourself stuck in just as you go to pass through it.

I really think you need to seek an attorney's advice. If your attorney wont talk to you, call one up on the phone and set up a "free" consult and ask them what happens in "this case". I am pretty sure that what you want to do isn't a good idea. But good luck with your journey, as I am sure it will be rather adventurous!

[RickSanchez]

Hi again Rick,

Don't rely on the NY title, the DMV vehicle registering process is separate from the contract between you and the lender. You're right, the DMV puts the lienholder on the title so you can't sell a vehicle with a lien on it to some unsuspecting schmuck. (which you are planning to do) But that is a consumer protection rule (which you probably violated). The DMV doesn't establish the lien, the loan contract does.

What I see in my crystal ball....you stop paying the loan and don't pay it off....after a month or two the lender wants the car back...you don't have it...they can't get a judgment b/c you didn't reaffirm...so they sue you for fraud or auto theft...put you on the stand where you will have to tell the court where the car went...win their case b/c you sold a car that didn't belong to you, it belonged to them...

Ontop of which, you would be sending what is essentially a stolen car over the border...

There are a dozen ways this can come back to bite you in the posterior....not worth the risk..

Tom in Colo

That's the question. Can you sue me for a car loan that was discharged in a BK proceedings? What if I have a bad accident and destroyed the car? In this case too, they would not get the car back. Can they sue me for that?
What r the normal procedures if the lender is not able to re-possesses the car? They take you to court even though the property is considered abandon? ( per my attorney). Keep in mind, there no longer is a legal agreement between me and them. I am looking to hear from people who have a legal background or have been in a similar situation.

Thanks,

[Wantmypeace]

+++ What Tom said!!!

[tcreegan]

Hi again Rick,

Don't rely on the NY title, the DMV vehicle registering process is separate from the contract between you and the lender. You're right, the DMV puts the lienholder on the title so you can't sell a vehicle with a lien on it to some unsuspecting schmuck. (which you are planning to do) But that is a consumer protection rule (which you probably violated). The DMV doesn't establish the lien, the loan contract does.

What I see in my crystal ball....you stop paying the loan and don't pay it off....after a month or two the lender wants the car back...you don't have it...they can't get a judgment b/c you didn't reaffirm...so they sue you for fraud or auto theft...put you on the stand where you will have to tell the court where the car went...win their case b/c you sold a car that didn't belong to you, it belonged to them...

Ontop of which, you would be sending what is essentially a stolen car over the border...

There are a dozen ways this can come back to bite you in the posterior....not worth the risk..

Tom in Colo

[Wantmypeace]

This sounds really dangerous to me. In the bk process, you either continue to pay the loan, and they let you keep the car, or you stop, and they take it back. The law says that they have that right. I'm thinking that just because someone messed up the paperwork between Nebraska and New York, it's still dangerous to stop paying and not give the car back. I think if you want to sell it, you should call the lien holder (I'm assuming you know who that is/was), and ask them how much they'll take to release the lien. If they say there's no lien, then okay, there's no lien, but I'm guessing there is and the DMV simply made a mistake. I wouldn't risk it, either.

Just my 2 cents.

[AngelinaCatHub]

NO, as I said I am thinking of selling to a person outside of the country. I don't think it's even possible to do what you are suggesting as the buyer has ways to remedy the situation.

Has anyone had a situation like mine?

Well, you did not state this in your thread. The ONLY remedy, is to pay off the whole mortgage and then he can ship the car where he wants only when it falls into his name. That is not what was presented to us (the forum). 'Hub

[RickSanchez]

Yes my friend, you may do with it what you want. BUT, you have to live with yourself. You just got out of a real stressful situation, how much more stress would you heave upon yourself? Do you wish to have your bk reopened by an Adversary Procedure? What you are considering is Fraud after the fact. Not right in any case.

The best you would do is just drive it until something happens, and if not, drive it till the wheel fall off. Karma is a B*tch, and you really don't want to upset her. My opinion. 'Hub

NO, as I said I am thinking of selling to a person outside of the country. I don't think it's even possible to do what you are suggesting as the buyer has ways to remedy the situation.

Has anyone had a situation like mine?

[dneil]

Well Rick... the answers you got are from people who really know their stuff. I wouldn't sell the car if I were you. If you don't want it, either walk away from it or sell it and pay off your loan.

Good Luck to you