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I was denied my Car-Reaffirm...Yippee!!!!

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    I was denied my Car-Reaffirm...Yippee!!!!

    This was not as knee rattling of an experience as the 341 Meeting for me, as my attorney already prepped me that my argument is I could pay, he would argue I couldn't, and he would win. That's exactly what happened.

    There were about 20 of us in the room, and a couple of attorneys on the phone with their clients present in the courtroom. My attorney was there, as well as another pair of clients of his. He greeted his other clients, then came to me and asked me if I had filed my taxes yet, as the judge may grant the re-affirm since I had a huge refund last year. I told him I didn't file, and I wasn't in a rush to file, as I took out a hardship withdrawal from my 401K to catch my mortgage up so I was going to have an additional tax burdon. He asked how much I took out, I told him, and he said that he was going to argue this as additional hardship, and I was definitely going to "Lose".

    The judge dealt with the phone attorneys first. They're cases were called by the clerk, and the judge asked the attorneys if they felt that their clients could handle the hardship. Both attorneys on the phone said their clients could not handle the debt, as they were hardship cases. The judge looked through their papers, agreed, and ordered both their affirmations denied. Two minute phone conversations for each. The clients sat at the table, while the judge talked with each attorney on the phone. As they were denied, he thanked everyone, and the clients present left the courtroom.

    The judge then called cases via alphabetical order by attorney. I've never seen this in any courtroom, so I was amazed at the efficiency of it. One attorney stood at the podium for 3 straight cases. Bing bang boom, they all had the same 2 minute conversation.

    One attorney had a gentlemen with a re-affirm with a Care 1 credit card for medical expenses. The creditor negotiated with him to pay $150 a month for a 5K debt, and the attorney argued that since it was medical, and her client felt obligated to pay, and his expenses looked like he could afford it, to go ahead with it. His re-affirm was granted.

    I was called shortly thereafter. I was the first of my attorneys cases called. He went to the podium, and I sat in a chair behind him. He said to my attorney, "Mr. D., this is regarding your client's 2009 Hyundai Santa Fe, what is your opinion regarding your client's request of re-affirmation? He said, "Your Honor, my client can not take on this hardship. Her financial condition has not changed from the initial filing." The Judge said, "Agreed, let the record reflect that I am Ordering this Re-affirmation denied. Thank you."

    And I was out the door. I was in the courtroom for 45 minutes from the time I was supposed to be there until I was in my car. So, being a "Loser" today was a good thing.
    Chapter 7 filed 10/8/10...341 Meeting 12/6/10....Discharged 2/16/2011....Case Closed! 3/1/2011

    #2
    So I'm guessing that Maryland requires a reaffirmation and doesn't allow a ride-through? Otherwise I guess I don't see the reason to even file a reaffirmation if you don't want to reaffirm.
    Case Closed > 2/08/2010

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      #3
      Yep, we require the re-affirm. I'm a loser, congratulate me!
      Chapter 7 filed 10/8/10...341 Meeting 12/6/10....Discharged 2/16/2011....Case Closed! 3/1/2011

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        #4
        You got it. Congratulations!
        Case Closed > 2/08/2010

        Comment


          #5
          Thank you! LOL
          Chapter 7 filed 10/8/10...341 Meeting 12/6/10....Discharged 2/16/2011....Case Closed! 3/1/2011

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            #6
            Originally posted by BobMango View Post
            So I'm guessing that Maryland requires a reaffirmation and doesn't allow a ride-through? Otherwise I guess I don't see the reason to even file a reaffirmation if you don't want to reaffirm.
            I did not know that there was states that require you too reaffirm. I thought you had the option to reaffirm or ride-thru.

            Comment


              #7
              Nope, not an option here. I thought it was a MD thing, as I read somewhere else it was a state's option, mine being one of them, but another poster on here said it was a new US BK thing? I dunno, but I went to court, I lost, and I'm happy. How often does one get to say that?
              Chapter 7 filed 10/8/10...341 Meeting 12/6/10....Discharged 2/16/2011....Case Closed! 3/1/2011

              Comment


                #8
                Before BAPCPA, the circuits (regional courts) were split with some allowing ride-thru and some not. Since BAPCPA changed the bk code, ride-through is no longer an option anywhere when it comes to personal property. (Real property is a different matter).

                People still do it if their lender doesn't object, or if their reaffirmations are denied AND the judge specifically stipulates that the lender cannot repo the item so long as the debtor does not default, or if there is state law protection specifically disallowing repo when a debtor is current.

                edit: Happy your case is working out the way you wanted, BrokeinMD.
                Last edited by debee; 02-10-2011, 06:57 PM.
                There are two secrets for success in life:
                1.) Never tell everything you know.

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                  #9
                  Basically in states without a law saying you can not be repo'd while current the safe method is to try for re-affirm, get denied and then do a ride thru. I recall seeing a case saying so long as full attempt was made by the debtor to re-affirm then the BK = default clause can't be used by the creditor.
                  3/2/09- Filed: chapter 7 / No asset
                  4/1/09- 341 Hearing: 1 creditor showed up Got to love family feuds
                  4/2/09- Trustee Report of No Distribution Filed
                  6/24/09- Discharged and case closed

                  Comment


                    #10
                    That's a misunderstanding. If a judge denies a reaffirmation that doesn't change the creditor's rights. They can still repo. The ONLY time the creditor loses that right is if the judge specifically stipulates that the creditor cannot repo so long as the debtor does not default. There have been cases like that. There have also been cases where the reaffirmation was denied and the creditor repo'd.

                    edit: luckily, most creditors don't want to repo and would rather have the payment.
                    There are two secrets for success in life:
                    1.) Never tell everything you know.

                    Comment


                      #11
                      So I guess that's what I'm doing is the ride-through, now that I lost the re-affirm. The Lender (Suntrust) sent it to my attorney, who told me the "game plan" and sent it to me to finish. I didn't request it, the Bank did. Really....if I could discharge some more, like my dirty laundry, cleaning my cat's litter box, ironing, etc. I would file to do that, too. LOL
                      Chapter 7 filed 10/8/10...341 Meeting 12/6/10....Discharged 2/16/2011....Case Closed! 3/1/2011

                      Comment


                        #12
                        LOL.... and shoveling snow, shaving, flossing...
                        There are two secrets for success in life:
                        1.) Never tell everything you know.

                        Comment


                          #13
                          Shaving depends....if I had to re-affirm my legs, I would do that, but I think my Sig Other would discharge me if I wanted to re-affirm shaving my face! No bearded lady here! LOL!

                          So, we get the ride-through here in MD if we "Lose" the re-affirm like I did today. Is there a list here available where the threat of losing it if you lose the re-affirm available on for the states where that applies?
                          Chapter 7 filed 10/8/10...341 Meeting 12/6/10....Discharged 2/16/2011....Case Closed! 3/1/2011

                          Comment


                            #14
                            There's no bkforum list that I'm aware of that details reaffirmation case law by district/circuit or state repo law. It's pretty hodgepodge from thread to thread.

                            Anyway, I think you're in a great circuit when it comes to ride-through and I think you're in a ride-through now. There is case law in the 4th circuit (& in MD specifically) establishing ride-through when the debtor substantially complies with the bk code as it pertains to both personal and real property but is thwarted by the court from filing the agreement. You stated one of the "allowed" intentions on your SOI and you signed the agreement and you were thwarted. Yay!

                            EDIT: I agree with what Debtender says in the post above when there's case law in a particular district/circuit. I also read a case where the debtor indicated reaffirm on his SOI, signed the reaffirmation, went to the hearing, had the reaffirmation denied and then he asked the court to stipulate that the lender could not repo and the judge refused and said the debtor was trying to get the backdoor ride-through and the judge wasn't going for it.
                            Last edited by debee; 02-10-2011, 10:28 PM.
                            There are two secrets for success in life:
                            1.) Never tell everything you know.

                            Comment


                              #15
                              Great news Broke, so glad you lost!
                              Filed Chapter 7 7/14/2011, 341 meeting 8/16/2011, discharged 10/19/2011! Note that my posts are not legal advice, so please do not sue me, I have enough problems already.

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