I can't believe it, the power of the discharge order is STRONG (citimortgage)

[IBroke]

Suh-Weet!!! Thanks for the info clarifying the stay and permanent injunction, IBroke!!. I love learning about this stuff.

Oh! So when the VA Debt Management folks sent us a bill the other day demanding $ since they don't show DH in school this semester - that was bad of them, wasn't it? LOL We aren't even discharged yet.

You're welcome. It's actually quite easy: If the automatic stay would be lifted after discharge without an adequate "replacement", the BK-filing and discharge would actually be pointless. They could collect again - just as they tried when "forgetting" the info-notation on the mortgage-statement.

[ValleYum]

That's correct, they can't come after okane.

However, your assumption that the mortgage is no longer affected under the automatic stay is not quite correct. The automatic stay is gone but is replaced by something very similar. In legal terms, once discharged and not reaffirmed, the automatic stay turns into a PERMANENT INJUNCTION. When it comes to sending out these statements, there is no legal difference between the two.

By dropping the notation "this is for info only..", they actually VIOLATED said injunction.

Suh-Weet!!! Thanks for the info clarifying the stay and permanent injunction, IBroke!!. I love learning about this stuff.

Oh! So when the VA Debt Management folks sent us a bill the other day demanding $ since they don't show DH in school this semester - that was bad of them, wasn't it? LOL We aren't even discharged yet.

[CoBelle]

oops...wrong thread, sorry

[IBroke]

My thought (*not* an attorney - just my .02) on why the language in your statement changed is because you are no longer under the protection of the automatic stay provision of the BK code *if* your bankruptcy has been discharged and closed.

From what I understand, no, they can not come after you for any part of the mortgage if you did not reaffirm it.

That's correct, they can't come after okane.

However, your assumption that the mortgage is no longer affected under the automatic stay is not quite correct. The automatic stay is gone but is replaced by something very similar. In legal terms, once discharged and not reaffirmed, the automatic stay turns into a PERMANENT INJUNCTION. When it comes to sending out these statements, there is no legal difference between the two.

By dropping the notation "this is for info only..", they actually VIOLATED said injunction.

[ValleYum]

I been staying and paying on my mortgage with US bank so far and have never been late. I marked the intention as reaffirming on the actual bankruptcy paperwork, but ended up not signing a actual reaffirmation agreement. I have always recieved statements every month during the bankruptcy process and there was was the bankruptcy language on it at first , but not anymore, its like a normal bill now without that bankruptcy clause. What can that mean? If I decide to walk away and stop making pmts now, can they come after me or sue me if I did not send a actual reaffirmation agreement?

My thought (*not* an attorney - just my .02) on why the language in your statement changed is because you are no longer under the protection of the automatic stay provision of the BK code *if* your bankruptcy has been discharged and closed.

From what I understand, no, they can not come after you for any part of the mortgage if you did not reaffirm it.

Did you ask your BK attorney?

[okane]

I been staying and paying on my mortgage with US bank so far and have never been late. I marked the intention as reaffirming on the actual bankruptcy paperwork, but ended up not signing a actual reaffirmation agreement. I have always recieved statements every month during the bankruptcy process and there was was the bankruptcy language on it at first , but not anymore, its like a normal bill now without that bankruptcy clause. What can that mean? If I decide to walk away and stop making pmts now, can they come after me or sue me if I did not send a actual reaffirmation agreement?

[tobee43]

very cool.........wish more atty's would go after these creditors......it's easy money for creditor and the atty!!! kudo's to your friend!

[mysticspirit25]

That's great news!! Do you happen to know who the insurer of the 2nd mortgage was?

Yes, it was United Guaranty Residential Insurance Company of North Carolina.

[mysticspirit25]

Wow!. So, does this mean after a mortgage is discharged, even if you stay and pay, that the mortagee cannot send statements or bill you? I was discharged in 12/09 and was sent statements with a balance owed until sept of 10", then they started sending the voluntary payment statements. Very intetested to hear more.

Yes, the mortgage company cannot send statements that are actual bills. Any statement after the filing of a BK must contain the "bankruptcy language" which is something like "this is for informational purposes only, should you wish to voluntarily pay your mortgage," or something very similar, after discharge, if the statement does not contain this, it is a violation of the discharge order. My other friend and his wife who just got a discharge in Jan 2011, had Litton Loan which was transferred to Greentree, discharged it all, and Greentree started calling cell phones with an autodialer, artificial voices, and sending threatening letters, they filed an AP, and Greentree paid them $12,000 before the contempt hearing, no confidentiality agreement, they also modified the "mortgage to a fixed 2%". And they can still walk away should they wish in the future.

[mysticspirit25]

Pardon me---what is PP?

permissible purpose (a creditor cannot pull a credit report on a discharged debt as there is no valid PP and therefore a violation of the FCRA and they are liable to the consumer reporting agency AND the consumer (according to Kellie Cosgrove, FTC staff attorney))

[mysticspirit25]

Wow....If I recall correctly, your friend filed pro se, right? Did he/she walk from the house or stay?

Your friend is brave to face this battle alone. Is he/she an attorney themselves, crazy, or just straight up Bold? Bravo, whatever the situation!

He is not an attorney, but he is a little crazy and very, very bold. He is the same one I refer to about a year ago in posts where his son hit him in the head with a wrench, and he hit him back (was 17 at the time) up side the head with an open hand (just a little too hard) and busted his eardrum and his mother (the ex) sued for $20k, got a judgment (which he attempted to discharge), and she (the ex) filed an AP and he went crazy filing all kinds of BS motions and she just gave up and dropped her AP. He filed so much with the court her lawyer said it would cost more in retainer to file responses then to respond, so her lawyer quit. Yeah, he is a little bit crazy i'd say.

And yes, he stayed in the house, first was with Wells, they refused to do a mod, so he got an executive on the line (got the contacts at jigsaw.com), and did a 3 way and canceled the insurance and said he was getting ready to set fire to the house (not illegal to burn your own house down in this state), and the next hour the mod docs were on the way, so yes, I would say very crazy. His housing payment went from almost $2000 a month, to $900/mo, he is my best friend so I have very intimate details of all of this.

Funny thing is he is going after Wells now for pulling his credit 3 times during the modification of mortgage, there still was no PP, as the underlying debt was discharged, he didn't sign a new app, note or any other agreement that trumps the Bk, so there was no PP on the 3 inquiries. Maybe they will shave $10-20k off the principal to make it at market value.

[feelingnutsy]

Pardon me---what is PP?

[sealpup]

That's great news!! Do you happen to know who the insurer of the 2nd mortgage was?

[keepsmiling]

Love it!!

[chap7girl]

Wow!. So, does this mean after a mortgage is discharged, even if you stay and pay, that the mortagee cannot send statements or bill you? I was discharged in 12/09 and was sent statements with a balance owed until sept of 10", then they started sending the voluntary payment statements. Very intetested to hear more.