Still gathering paperwork....bwaaahaaaahaaaaa.....

[olivies]

For some reason AT&T's cell phone bills are very long PDFs. One of them is 300+ pages. Lots of blank space, teens that send 12K texts a month, etc. BUT SHE ASKED FOR THEM!

On a side note- found my son's dental treatment plan from April (2 months before filing). We haven't been able to do the ortho and implant (missing a permanent incisor) part of the treatment plan because it comes to nearly $7K!. Had to cancel that initial appointment for xrays/photographs because we don't qualify for the financing naturally. I am completely sure I didn't include that expense on any of my schedules because it got chalked up to 'not sure if we'll ever be able to afford that' and forgotten about, and that's a good hefty one!

[AngelinaCat]

Congratulations on finding that! I know it's tedious, but like you said, she asked for it. She may regret it by the time she wades through a few hundred pdf files. Is there any way you can submit this on a CD?

Hang in there!

[UghUghUgh]

I have nightmares about the paperwork. I literally have BINS under our bed filled with ever piece of mail I have received in the last 8 months. Why on earth does she want your cell phone bills? Surely the first page is enough. WOW!

[oc714]

Was this the only thing she requested from you or additonal paperwork???

[olivies]

Was this the only thing she requested from you or additonal paperwork???

This was the request she finally made, after months of postponing. Copies of life insurance policies, utility bills (and we only put $28 over the IRS standard for a family of 5 and we're a family of 8), 2 yrs bank statements, education and child care expenses, and anything else that we think would be helpful.

[olivies]

DH drove the hour+ yesterday to deliver a stack three inches thick (no joke) to the attorney's office- it was cheaper than mailing it. The paralegal was really impressed with the amount of what we had. Truthfully it was nothing "that" unusual: life insurance policies, bank statements for 2 years (we had 2 checking accounts), and cable, wireless, water, & electric statements (the month of June had double amounts because we moved into our new rental the month of July so we had two houses to pay utilities for in June).

The child care and education expenses are still being gathered to turn in. Hit a BIG snag because I can't get electronic copies of checks online from my old checking account. I can see my statements, which lists the checks, but there is no way for me to view a copy of the check. So I have no images or cancelled checks to show who they were made out to. All I have is my Mint.com register where I logged them into the appropriate categories as they hit the account. Some I know- like the $105 one marked "education fees" (graduation and senior fees for my DS) or the ones marked "school lunch" are easy enough. But the ones that say "$45- Education-Activity fee" I can't verify. I know it's a field trip fee, because I know my filing system. However, I have no digital image, no canceled check, nothing showing the check was actually made out to the school. Aren't computers and the digital age supposed to make our lives easier?? Anyways, the bank charges a per check fee to get us a paper photocopy. We have probably 20 checks in that category. Our attorney said not to pay anything, just send what we have- which would be the categorization ledger from Mint.com and some receipts here and there.

[IamOld]

Can I ask WHY you're being hounded like this? God knows I don't have two years worth of anything!

[olivies]

Can I ask WHY you're being hounded like this? God knows I don't have two years worth of anything!

We are over the median income, but pass the means test. However, the UST is mainly questioning our rent allowance. The IRS Standard for a family of 5+ is $1060 in our county. Our rent at the time of filing was $1725, and we are a family of 8 (6 kids). We've since moved- to a different county no less- and our rent is $1550. Our attorney says it's totally at the judges discretion whether the standard will be allowed or the actual will be allowed. We live in a 1200 sq ft house, 4 bedrooms (technically 3, one bedroom doesn't have a window, it's meant to be more of an office or den but we use it as a BR) built in 1956. Not a taj mahal. There are NOT 4Bedrooms available for rent in the price range the IRS allows unless I move 20-25 minutes further south. As it is, we're already 30 minutes from DH's work, but luckily very close to the school we choiced our children to (they go to the full time gifted school, not our regular district school). We've actually been turned away from 3BR rentals because the HOA had guidelines regarding the number of residents vs. bedrooms ratio if the home was rented and not inhabited by the homeowner.

So she's going thru everything with a fine tooth comb, because if the judge allows our rent expense and determines that the IRS standard is just a baseline and doesn't actually represent what is attainable or reasonable, she has no other reason for objection unless she can find a bunch of other things that make enough of a difference $ wise to dismiss our case.

I mean, life insurance policies??? We pay $75-80 a month for our two policies together, and then I pay one for my disabled father, that's another $39 a month. She's looking to accumulate lots of small discrepancies, in case the housing swings our way. It's not personal- I sorta know that. Then again, she had no problem making a completely inappropriate comment regarding our family size and planned parenthood during our 341.

[StartinOver]

It's not personal- I sorta know that. Then again, she had no problem making a completely inappropriate comment regarding our family size and planned parenthood during our 341.

Yes it is, but I bet SHE doesn't realize it. She's being led around by the nose by her ideology and probably just sees herself as meticulous in her work. But it sounds like you are going to have enough to succeed with your Ch7 and she will have wasted a lot of time and resources in this witch hunt.

[olivies]

Yes it is, but I bet SHE doesn't realize it. She's being led around by the nose by her ideology and probably just sees herself as meticulous in her work. But it sounds like you are going to have enough to succeed with your Ch7 and she will have wasted a lot of time and resources in this witch hunt.

From your mouth to god's ears.

[IamOld]

We are over the median income, but pass the means test. However, the UST is mainly questioning our rent allowance. The IRS Standard for a family of 5+ is $1060 in our county. Our rent at the time of filing was $1725, and we are a family of 8 (6 kids). We've since moved- to a different county no less- and our rent is $1550. Our attorney says it's totally at the judges discretion whether the standard will be allowed or the actual will be allowed. We live in a 1200 sq ft house, 4 bedrooms (technically 3, one bedroom doesn't have a window, it's meant to be more of an office or den but we use it as a BR) built in 1956. Not a taj mahal. There are NOT 4Bedrooms available for rent in the price range the IRS allows unless I move 20-25 minutes further south. As it is, we're already 30 minutes from DH's work, but luckily very close to the school we choiced our children to (they go to the full time gifted school, not our regular district school). We've actually been turned away from 3BR rentals because the HOA had guidelines regarding the number of residents vs. bedrooms ratio if the home was rented and not inhabited by the homeowner.

So she's going thru everything with a fine tooth comb, because if the judge allows our rent expense and determines that the IRS standard is just a baseline and doesn't actually represent what is attainable or reasonable, she has no other reason for objection unless she can find a bunch of other things that make enough of a difference $ wise to dismiss our case.

I mean, life insurance policies??? We pay $75-80 a month for our two policies together, and then I pay one for my disabled father, that's another $39 a month. She's looking to accumulate lots of small discrepancies, in case the housing swings our way. It's not personal- I sorta know that. Then again, she had no problem making a completely inappropriate comment regarding our family size and planned parenthood during our 341.

Wow - so because you're rent is a bit higher (and her own personal "issues") she can do this? Did your atty not try to get this in front of a judge? So over the median and over the rent, and it's this???

So basically she's trying to push you into a 13?

[olivies]

Wow - so because you're rent is a bit higher (and her own personal "issues") she can do this? Did your atty not try to get this in front of a judge? So over the median and over the rent, and it's this???

So basically she's trying to push you into a 13?

Yes. In fact, because we have a rent higher than the standard I think she has to do this. I don't think she has the power to make a decision on that, maybe I'm wrong though. My attorney has been talking to her and has said it will ultimately come to the judge. I think he's been letting her extend ad nauseum hoping she'll just realize she has bigger fish to catch. Strategically, we've filed and received a bar date, to see who files claims and how much. That way we know what the worse case scenario is likely to look like. However, we've already racked up $3k+ in additional attorney fees. If I convert this to a 13 thats even MORE fees. AND DH will likely get a bonus this summer, we're hoping anyways. We were going to use that to pay some debts (like the attorney, new medical debts), get tires for the car and fix the suspension, & cover our portion of my DD's wisdom teeth removal. If we get pushed into a 13 before that, that check will go to the trustee.

However, I came across a treatment plan we got for my son last April (2 months before filing). He needs a second round of orthodontics and an implant (missing a permanent tooth) to the tune of $7K. I'm pretty sure we didn't include that on our schedule J as I tossed it in the file and said "no idea how to swing that". Since it is forward looking, and we know we have this expense coming up, somehow, I think my attorney ought to file an amended one, don't you? That ought to make my possible DMI look even more grim.

[Freddy03]

Wow she really is digging and hoping?!?!

Now would this work the same with mortgage? Our mortgage is A LOT higher than the IRS standard.

[IamOld]

Yes. In fact, because we have a rent higher than the standard I think she has to do this. I don't think she has the power to make a decision on that, maybe I'm wrong though. My attorney has been talking to her and has said it will ultimately come to the judge. I think he's been letting her extend ad nauseum hoping she'll just realize she has bigger fish to catch. Strategically, we've filed and received a bar date, to see who files claims and how much. That way we know what the worse case scenario is likely to look like. However, we've already racked up $3k+ in additional attorney fees. If I convert this to a 13 thats even MORE fees. AND DH will likely get a bonus this summer, we're hoping anyways. We were going to use that to pay some debts (like the attorney, new medical debts), get tires for the car and fix the suspension, & cover our portion of my DD's wisdom teeth removal. If we get pushed into a 13 before that, that check will go to the trustee.

However, I came across a treatment plan we got for my son last April (2 months before filing). He needs a second round of orthodontics and an implant (missing a permanent tooth) to the tune of $7K. I'm pretty sure we didn't include that on our schedule J as I tossed it in the file and said "no idea how to swing that". Since it is forward looking, and we know we have this expense coming up, somehow, I think my attorney ought to file an amended one, don't you? That ought to make my possible DMI look even more grim.

Wow - in my area there is NO WAY you can be under IRS standard for rent or mort - NO way - VERY VERY high cost metro area.

[JEM]

Could it be that she's pushing so hard on the other stuff (the life insurance, cell phone statements etc...) to get you to finally cave over the rent expense?

You know, try to wear you down type thing?

It just seems so....over.the.top.

And the Planned Parenthood comment....total shock!