Hypothetical:Tempting the Trustee

[time4cake]

Goal: Full discharge in Chapter 7
Given: You are not interested in saving your house.
Obstacle: Pressure to file a Chapter 13

It is my understanding that you are able to keep all your assets in chapter 13, and must pay the trustee your disposable income. In addition the unsecured creditors must do as well in a chapter 13 plan as they would in a chapter 7 liquidation.

With the above in mind, wouldn't it be possible to state a value of your home in excess of the allowed exemption, providing you have an appraisal to support the value. There by tempting the trustee to liquidate the asset to pay of the secured and unsecured creditors, and effectively removing the threat of being pressured into a Chapter 13 plan.

For example:

House Value $400,000
Expected closing costs ($40,000)
Secured debt ($300,000)
Exemption ($18,000)
Net Proceeds $42,000
Approximate monthly payment to match chapter 7=$700
The $700 would be over and above what you would likely pay into a chapter 13 plan where the intention is to keep the residence.


Wouldn't the trustee be hard pressed to render an opinion suggesting that the unsecured creditors would be better off in a chapter 13?

What would happen if they were unable to sell the property for the appraised value?

Please advise

[djk]

no way in hell they are gonna get 400 grand for the house in your market because if they could you would already have done it right? remember that was the big stumbling block in your earlier posts? And I would imagine the trustee knows this as well as you do. back to the drawing board.

[time4cake]

DJK

The first word in my post was "Hypothetical," and as such means not specific to my situation. As you can see by my signature I have already filed, and as such am extremely limited in what I can do "back at the drawing board."

[djk]

DJK

The first word in my post was "Hypothetical," and as such means not specific to my situation. As you can see by my signature I have already filed, and as such am extremely limited in what I can do "back at the drawing board."

i block avatars and signatures, so I have no idea what is in anybodys. they are a waste of space and bandwidth. it took one post from bkfiler to bring me to that decision. if it was not a hypothetical question specific to your situation, why ask?

[time4cake]

if it was not a ...(edit)... question specific to your situation, why ask?

Because my thoughts might be of benefit to someone else.

If you could not provide a beneficial answer to the question, why respond?

[djk]

Because my thoughts might be of benefit to someone else.

If you could not provide a beneficial answer to the question, why respond?

the question was,
What would happen if they were unable to sell the property for the appraised value?

and my answer was,
no way in hell they are gonna get 400 grand for the house in your market because if they could you would already have done it right? remember that was the big stumbling block in your earlier posts? And I would imagine the trustee knows this as well as you do. back to the drawing board.

and the reason I came to that answer is you have been through all of this before under the guise of it being your particular situation at hand. all the
numbers lined up with your particular problem and your particular case, so
I figured you were talking about your case.

but anyway, most of your questions are for legal opinions, I don't think there are too many lawyers hanging in this forum. But if you are familiar with the UseNet newsgroups subscribe to alt.bankruptcy, there are 4 or 5 bankruptcy lawyers that hang out in that group and would be better able to give you what you are looking for. Also another forum by a bankruptcy attorney in VA, his name is Brett Weiss, the forum is The Bankruptcy Forum and he moderates it and does give advice on the forum if he thinks he can help, at least in a general sense.

http://chat-cards.com/wwwboard/bankruptcy/messages.html

I hope the mods here don't mind the link, it's just another resource and this one does have an inhouse attorney. If you are not able to trust and believe in what your attorney is telling you he can do then just don't ask laymen, ask
lawyers. Good luck

[SinkingFast]

Actually, different attnys do give different opinions on the same subject.

Our attny and I agreed on how we thought a Statute regarding our exemptions "initially" read. But then I told him when I read it a second time and saw the wording "Each head of household gets" I wondered if that meant we'd get to double that exemption as well. The attny agreed that was a good point. He plans to contact an attny in Missouri for clarification on some points of application of the Statutes any way, so that's another question he's gonna ask an attny out there.

Time,..............

I would think, and this is just personal opinion speaking here. The Trustee will have a whole host of professionals at their disposal. First thing the Trustee would do is contact an appraiser for an "off the cuff" opinion of the valuation on your property. In 5-10 minutes tops, the appraiser will have a ball park guesstimate answer for the Trustee and the Trustee will know roughly what your property would bring, Fair Market price. Trustees sell quick sale, so they know about how much to dink that. It wouldn't take much doing for the Trustee to know whether or not the property is worth his/her time.

In a market as you've said yours is, I'd doubt the Trustee would bite on the bait.

Just my thoughts.

[keepmine]

There by tempting the trustee to liquidate the asset to pay of the secured and unsecured creditors, and effectively removing the threat of being pressured into a Chapter 13 plan.

What happens in this situation is, the plan must then call for a 100% payback to unsecured creditors. The trustee may accept the plan and not liquidate anything.

[aa06a47]

The trustees will generally use (I'm told) the tax appraisal value of the home (note, this is not the tax valuation). My attorney has the software on the computer and pulled my house right out. She asked me if there was anything I disagreed with on the value of my home based on the tax appraisal value. I told her no, guess not, and she said good, this is what the trustee uses.

One thing, they will check home values. My trustee uses the tax appraised value (which by the way is pretty close to the value I had listed (within 4000 dollars)).

[scammer]

Because my thoughts might be of benefit to someone else.

If you could not provide a beneficial answer to the question, why respond?

I love reading your posts, your are a high net worth case like myself, or should I just say "a target rich environment". Two questions for your hypo and you shall receive a pretty good answer from me. Whats assessed, what would realtor value on a drive by. Also have you checked your zillo prices?
Mine came in almost $800,000. If you really want the answer to bk'ing, and the golden secret when filing, ask my online girlfriend Sinkingfast, if you twist her arm she might tell you. I deleted all my posts one day, I was pissed off, got mad at a little thing called cancer. Also do your homework on Pacer, when your bill gets up over $600 like mine did, you will reach the status of a Jedi BK'er.

By the way, I am a 7 guy, I had no need or desire to file a 13, and bet thats what the Trustee would have loved for me to become. I am pre 10/17, your after, the force is much stronger post 10/17.
ta ta....

[djk]

... But then I told him when I read it a second time and saw the wording "Each head of household gets" I wondered if that meant we'd get to double that exemption as well.

Just my thoughts.

tax wise a head of household must provide more than 50% of the support for the household, so I think there is only one head of household as far as the IRS is concerned. Not sure if the court views it the same way, but I would imagine they do. then again if you have 2 properties, each of you could be head of household for 1 property assuming you live in each property 50% of the year.

[SinkingFast]

That's what we thought, DJK. That Hubby would be the Head of Household.

But then the word EACH just kinda jumped out. That lead me to ask the attny if EACH meant me too and we would get to double that exemption. It's a Wildcard exemption. In that case, it might be useful to have double.