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Ch 7 Asset or Non-Asset....plus second thoughts

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    Ch 7 Asset or Non-Asset....plus second thoughts

    We have retained an attorney to file ch 7. could possibly be pushed into a 13, although don't necessarily want to do that.

    We have provided our quesitonnaire and paperwork to the attorney and he's created our draft petition.

    One item listed on our petition is a pawn loan for my engagement ring (about 1k) and a 32 in flat screen (about 200, being generous). We took the pawn loan to make a 2-month mortgage payment this past summer, and have been slowly, oh ever so slowly, trying to whittle down the pawn loan principal balance.

    We must either redeem our pawn loan in a couple of days, pay the outstanding interest and roll the principal, or surrender to the pawn shop. I really don't want to surrender it, especially since I've been paying crazy interest the last few months to get it out, and of course there is that sentimental value bug.

    We have the lump sum to be able to pay the principal and outstanding interest (about $950 total). I asked my attorney if there would be any negative implications related to the bk for doing that.

    He responded rather quickly (and perhaps without consulting our case notes) that doing so would turn us from a non-asset to an asset case. I asked why but have not received a response.

    Anybody have any guesses why he might have said that? Our only jewelry is my wedding band (about $150 pawn value) and the engagement ring (about $1000 pawn value). I would think we would be under the exemption for jewelry.

    Is it the act of paying the money to the pawn shop the piece that might jepordize our non-asset status?

    Secondly, and boy I am just spinning in what-to-do's, my husband is starting a new job in December. Along with the new job comes about an $18,000 annual raise. Plus his daily commute will decrease from about 150 miles roundtrip per day to around 100.

    We are going to see increased income and maybe a little less expenses related to fuel costs.

    Our unsecured debt is not very large -- maybe less than $20k. Our big issue is our mortgage, which we are behind by about 7 months and we've had a NED filed. We intend to stay in the house, but suspected we wouldn't be able to get current in the time it would take to file and discharge a 7.

    Now with the increased income, in all reality we probably could work out some sort of payment plan with the mortgage company. But we are underwater about $50k (probably more once they add the foreclosure attorney's fees). Would be okay with walking.

    Does it even make sense file bk if we can work things out with all creditors? Should we seriously try to do a short-sale? Are we playing the BK card much too soon?

    If it matters, we are an FHA insured loan with a HUD second lien from a partial claim.

    I apologize for the long-winded post, and hopefully some of you will find bits and pieces you can offer advice about.

    This post is indicative of where my head is right now....swimming in tons of what-ifs, should-we's, what-about's, etc.

    Thank you in advance for any input!

    #2
    Hello there:-)
    Your wedding band and ring are exempt...but I don't know what the impact of the pawn loan would be :-(
    I hope my little tidbit helps :-)

    Comment


      #3
      Thanks Nufsayd.

      Perhaps it would be viewed as preferential treatment?

      My attorney wants us to wait until after we file to deal with the pawn loan, but I'm not down with that.

      If only I could express the tennis match going on in my head....back, forth, back, forth...

      Thanks for weighing in!

      Comment


        #4
        Do not pay any creditor more than $600 within the three months prior to filing your BK. Otherwise what you pay that creditor will become an asset of the estate, and you'll end up still owing the creditor, if it is a secured debt. List the pawnshop in your BK, get the debt discharged and then see if the pawnshop will settle for a smaller amount.

        Comment


          #5
          Isn't the pawnshop a SECURED creditor though and the $600 doesn't matter??? therefore?

          Comment


            #6
            Maybe that's what my attorney was referring to? The fact that paying more than $600 to get my items back will make it an asset case?

            I need to contact him again for further explanation.

            The pawn shop is listed on my statement of financial affairs under item #6 - Assignments and receiverships.

            Isn't a pawn loan a secured loan since I have pledged (given) collateral to secure it? So if I were to pay it off, basically the transaction is complete and the end result is I have my property back.

            Wouldn't the trustee be able to pursue the pawn shop if they wanted that money back? Or would I have to give up the property itself?

            This is a complete timing issue. I can pay the couple hundred bucks of interest to give me another 30 days on the pawn loan, and IF we then file, what happens? Can't the pawn shop still take the property if I don't pay within the next 30 days?

            The ultimate decision has to do with how I prevent losing the property. On one hand I don't want to keep throwing money at the interest to roll this month to month to month until discharge. On the other hand, I don't want to create an even bigger mess by getting the items out of pawn.

            Is there a simple solution?

            As always, my sincere thanks for your comments.

            Comment


              #7
              It doesn't matter if it is a secured debt. If you pay more than $600 to any CREDITOR within three months of filing you run the risk of the Trustee taking those funds back and turning your case into an asset case. You need to list the ring as an asset on your schedules and the loan as a secured loan. After you file, if you are late on your payment the pawn shop will not be able to immediately get the ring back without filing for a relief from stay, which is going to cost it money. Since it is a secured debt you will need to eventually work out your payment arrangement with the pawnshop or else give up the ring. But filing BK gives you time to work all of this out.

              I'm assuming you have the ring in your possession and not at the pawnshop?

              Comment


                #8
                So my attorney says: "it's not a loan secured by property. you would be purchasing assets back. if you want it then purchase it but I cannot guarantee it will not be viewed as a preference payment."

                No, I don't have possession of the ring. With a pawn loan, you take in collateral and they hold it until you can pay off your loan. If you don't pay off your loan in 30 days (or pay the interest and roll the principal), you surrender the collateral and they get to sell it in their store.

                Ugh, decisions.......i don't make very good ones, which is why I am in the mess I am.

                Comment

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