Reaffermation agreement question

[jeff6898]

I would not only refuse to reaffirm anything, but I'd seriously consider quitting payments on the car, and surrendering it in bankruptcy. By 200,000 miles, I can assure you that the transmission is ready to give out, and that is not cheap to fix. In fact, I have never seen an automatic transmission in any car last for more than 150,000 miles without needing to be rebuilt or replaced.

You can quit paying, and probably keep the car for 2 or 3 months payment-free before they actually reposess it. In fact, due to the low value and high mileage, they may never reposess the car!

I am already having transmission problems among many other problems with it.

[bcohen]

I would not only refuse to reaffirm anything, but I'd seriously consider quitting payments on the car, and surrendering it in bankruptcy. By 200,000 miles, I can assure you that the transmission is ready to give out, and that is not cheap to fix. In fact, I have never seen an automatic transmission in any car last for more than 150,000 miles without needing to be rebuilt or replaced.

You can quit paying, and probably keep the car for 2 or 3 months payment-free before they actually reposess it. In fact, due to the low value and high mileage, they may never reposess the car!

[jeff6898]

Do nothing. The BK court will not make you do anything unless they file a claim with the Trustee, and that is highly unlikely. Do nothing. Nothing. Wait until after discharge, then see if they come after you with a Writ of Replevin. No settlement. Nothing.

I am not going to sign a thing. I made up my mind on that. Once discharged they can get it with out filing with the court first?

[goturtlego]

Oh my goodness do not offer a settlement. They have to jump through hoops to come get your stuff. Trust what is being said here, it's a bluff. They want you to pay and for you to sign and be on the hook for it, despite your bk7. They will not come get your used items.

My attorney advises against reaffirming my mortgage, no way would I reaffirm furniture.

[bcohen]

No he wants me to sign one. I am hoping to just keep paying the payments with out signing. The car lot has not mentioned a word about a reaffirmation agreement. I don't think being a buy here pay here the car lot guy cares about that.

Let me get this straight. An attorney, who is supposedly representing your interests is telling you to reaffirm a loan on an old car with high miles, that's worth a fraction of what you owe? Wow. Just wow. At least you were not dumb enough to go along with his terrible advice.

In addition to being wrong about his very bad advice that you reaffirm the car loan and furniture, your attorney is also wrong that redemption is based on the highest possible retail price of the item in question. An item which is damaged, heavily used, or worn, is obviously worth significantly less than one which is newer and in better condition. The valuation of a car is certainly based on mileage, physical condition, and mechanical problems. Ever tried to trade in a car with high miles, body damage, or mechanical problems? They sure don't go off of "highest retail" then, and neither does the judge in bankruptcy court.

BTW, assuming "good" condition, your car is worth about $2500 private party sales price which means that in "fair" condition, it's worth even less.

[jeff6898]

Mine is a simple no asset case. Nothing special. Yes I am going to take everyone here's advice and not try for any redemption or sign any reaffirmation agreement on anything car or furniture. Thanks everyone who gave me the advice.

Jeff, we are here for you and others who are trying to get the best advice they can.

In many cases, we say "ask your attorney" and then verify their answers.

In your case, you have the choice of taking our advice over your attorney. I am not sure why he is advising you this way, or if there is more to the story, or if he knows something very unusual and specific to your case or Trustee. Unknown. But, in almost every case that i could possibly dream up, reaffirmation is not the answer. Nor is redemption of consumer items. There are specific reasons to do so, especially if there is a suspicion of fraud or other issue that could REALLY blow up in your face, but based on what we have in front of us here, I thing the opinion is about unanimous - don't redeem, don't reaffirm.

[btbeme]

Jeff, we are here for you and others who are trying to get the best advice they can.

In many cases, we say "ask your attorney" and then verify their answers.

In your case, you have the choice of taking our advice over your attorney. I am not sure why he is advising you this way, or if there is more to the story, or if he knows something very unusual and specific to your case or Trustee. Unknown. But, in almost every case that i could possibly dream up, reaffirmation is not the answer. Nor is redemption of consumer items. There are specific reasons to do so, especially if there is a suspicion of fraud or other issue that could REALLY blow up in your face, but based on what we have in front of us here, I thing the opinion is about unanimous - don't redeem, don't reaffirm.

[ValleYum]

No he wants me to sign one. I am hoping to just keep paying the payments with out signing. The car lot has not mentioned a word about a reaffirmation agreement. I don't think being a buy here pay here the car lot guy cares about that.

I really don't understand your attorney's thought processes but I (personally) am glad you haven't signed a reaffirmation particularly with a high mileage car.

If you did reaffirm and then something went wrong with the Maxima, it would truly suck to have to continue your payments on it (in order to preserve your post-BK credit) AND try to find the money for another car payment.

If you don't reaffirm and something bad happens, you could just walk away from the Maxima payment and get another vehicle.

You have gotten a lot of good advice in this thread - I hope it has helped you to be confident in your choices. Good luck!!!

[jeff6898]

No he wants me to sign one. I am hoping to just keep paying the payments with out signing. The car lot has not mentioned a word about a reaffirmation agreement. I don't think being a buy here pay here the car lot guy cares about that.

Did you reaffirm the car note?

[ValleYum]

Did you reaffirm the car note?

[jeff6898]

I give up on my attorney. I called him about this 722 redemption after I read about it online once you mentioned it. I have a 1998 Maxima over 200,000 miles and I owe $3,300 I know got from buy here pay here lot. starting to give me trouble. Lawyer said they go by high retail for redemption so I would not save. He said on the furniture the judge would go by what is owed or very close to it as value. I guess he just doesn't want to be bothered. Anyways I am going to do nothing and let badcock do what ever they are going to do. No use worrying myself sick over this.

[SMinGA2]

Your attorney is WRONG. You have the right of redemption in a chapter 7.

Section 722 of the bankruptcy code says you have the right to redeem secured property by paying the creditor for the portion of the debt that is secured, which means what its worth. Anything above what its worth is unsecured. It requires a motion for redemption of collateral.

Darn wish now I had a differant attorney. I wonder if I can offer a settlement offer on my own? He seems not to want to be bothered with doing anything else since after the 341. HIs only options I have according to him are 1. pay in full what is owed 2. sign reaffirmation or 3. give them the items back. He claims the court would make me pay what I owed and would not let me offer to pay less. He seemed great right up until the 341 ended.

I agree with btbeme, but just wanted to mention this since your attorney didn't give it as an option.

[btbeme]

I wonder if I can offer a settlement offer on my own? ... He claims the court would make me pay what I owed and would not let me offer to pay less.

Do nothing. The BK court will not make you do anything unless they file a claim with the Trustee, and that is highly unlikely. Do nothing. Nothing. Wait until after discharge, then see if they come after you with a Writ of Replevin. No settlement. Nothing.

[jeff6898]

Darn wish now I had a differant attorney. I wonder if I can offer a settlement offer on my own? He seems not to want to be bothered with doing anything else since after the 341. HIs only options I have according to him are 1. pay in full what is owed 2. sign reaffirmation or 3. give them the items back. He claims the court would make me pay what I owed and would not let me offer to pay less. He seemed great right up until the 341 ended.

Does your attorney work for you, or the creditors? The reason I have to ask is because the advice he is giving is contrary to YOUR interests, and plays into the interests of your creditors. Even assuming that the creditor had a bona fide lien on the property (which I do not believe is correct), you still have leverage to negotiate a payoff, especially to the extent that reposessing the collateral will net less than the proposed payoff. Used consumer goods are difficult--if not impossible--to sell, and adding in the costs of reposessing them means that the creditor would lose hundreds of dollars on this proposed repo. It's not going to happen. A better attorney would have advised you to offer a settlement of $100 to $150 max, and most likely the creditor would have happily accepted such a settlement.

[bcohen]

I just got back from the attorney's office this morning....I asked him about negotiating a pay off. He said it would be near the full amount I owe. My lawyer told me on secured property the ball is in the crediotors court and I have no negotiating power at all. So I said guess we are done then I will not sign. He said ok they will probably be by for there stuff pretty quick once they have the stay lifted. Oh well guess I lost on this one. Live and learn.

Does your attorney work for you, or the creditors? The reason I have to ask is because the advice he is giving is contrary to YOUR interests, and plays into the interests of your creditors. Even assuming that the creditor had a bona fide lien on the property (which I do not believe is correct), you still have leverage to negotiate a payoff, especially to the extent that reposessing the collateral will net less than the proposed payoff. Used consumer goods are difficult--if not impossible--to sell, and adding in the costs of reposessing them means that the creditor would lose hundreds of dollars on this proposed repo. It's not going to happen. A better attorney would have advised you to offer a settlement of $100 to $150 max, and most likely the creditor would have happily accepted such a settlement.