How long is too long to be discharged?

[katosbo]

From the state of Maryland. My husband and I filed chapter 7 in September 2003. On 2nd attorney after first one cut his teeth with the State's new computer system and gave us incorrect advice at the beginning (which has caused the assignment of a trustee, etc.) After 15 60-day extensions, we are at our wit's end. Any suggestions on how to come to closure? We are willing to accept consequences based on Attorney 1's incompetence / incomplete advice, however we seem to be on the hamster wheel just going round and round with the State and US Bankruptcy courts. Any advice - the good, the bad or the ugly - is appreciated at this point. We are supplying the same documentation to lawyer #2 as supplied to lawyer #1 and the trustees in December 2004. We do not want to hire yet another lawyer... Help!

[JOSEPHLB]

What attorney's are you using or have you used?
I'd love to know, so I know to avoid them.
I'm in Maryland and have been researching and planning on filing

[aa06a47]

From the state of Maryland. My husband and I filed chapter 7 in September 2003. On 2nd attorney after first one cut his teeth with the State's new computer system and gave us incorrect advice at the beginning (which has caused the assignment of a trustee, etc.) After 15 60-day extensions, we are at our wit's end. Any suggestions on how to come to closure? We are willing to accept consequences based on Attorney 1's incompetence / incomplete advice, however we seem to be on the hamster wheel just going round and round with the State and US Bankruptcy courts. Any advice - the good, the bad or the ugly - is appreciated at this point. We are supplying the same documentation to lawyer #2 as supplied to lawyer #1 and the trustees in December 2004. We do not want to hire yet another lawyer... Help!

Can you be more specific? What is the reason for the extensions? What did attorney 1 do wrong? What is the trustee's objections? You need to provide additional information before anybody can help.

[catwhisperer]

From the state of Maryland. My husband and I filed chapter 7 in September 2003. On 2nd attorney after first one cut his teeth with the State's new computer system and gave us incorrect advice at the beginning (which has caused the assignment of a trustee, etc.) After 15 60-day extensions, we are at our wit's end. Any suggestions on how to come to closure? We are willing to accept consequences based on Attorney 1's incompetence / incomplete advice, however we seem to be on the hamster wheel just going round and round with the State and US Bankruptcy courts. Any advice - the good, the bad or the ugly - is appreciated at this point. We are supplying the same documentation to lawyer #2 as supplied to lawyer #1 and the trustees in December 2004. We do not want to hire yet another lawyer... Help!

I'll add a question for myself. You got extensions? We are concerned about our filing, just need to provide proof of stuff probably. So, if you go to the 341 meeting and it looks like they need more info, they will give you an extension, not just dismiss it?

[Minnymouth]

You did file Chapter 7, right? Did you have sellable assets? House, etc?

Did you have creditors object? If so, who and why.....?

Who filed for an extension on your objection date? Reason?

Need some more info............

[SinkingFast]

I know you're probably afraid to post too specific details, but in order for anyone here to help you, you'll need to post the whole story.

The Ch of BK you filed. From being in this section of the Forum, probably Ch 7?

Are you married? Do you own a home? CC debt, etc.

You originally filed under Old Law, so Old Law is gonna govern how your case is handled. That much I can tell you.

[katosbo]

Details "How long is too long to be discharged?"

Hello everyone, and thank you for your replies. I understand this is anonymous, so here goes with my tale of woe and the timeline.

Filed chapter 7 with my husband: 9/2003. Hired lawyer #1. Lawyer #1 told us "only claim the debts you want discharged" (problem number 1... you must claim all debts. We want to actually pay some debt and keep our house and cars, so we don't list those.)

We had a large amount of cc debt, largely due to getting cash advances to pay for an off shore real estate deal with some friends. Yes, this gets hairy. Wired money to an account, and of course, the wired amounts were large enough that they were trackable. Yes, a handshake deal. Friends screw us, and we end up with all the debt and no choice but to file Chapter 7.

341 Conference in Baltimore: 12/19/03. Venable Trustee on behalf of the US Bankruptcy Court in Maryland yells at us for not disclosing all debt, whether or not we intended to pay it back. Also, there is accused perjury when the question was asked, "do you have any real estate interests not disclosed here, foreign or domestic?". Well, technically, nothing was in OUR NAME. My husband's name is on a handwritten contract (again, the "gentlemens agreement" with no lawyers involved. My name is NOT on the contract, so technically I am not part of the real estate deal.) One bright spot in this tale.

Personal Note: I deliver our first child 12/26/03 This is the other bright spot in our story.

We still keep our house and our two car payments up.

We refile with everything disclosed (except the off shore real estate deal).

The gentlemen business partners are no longer keeping up their payments on the off shore real estate, since we have no more source of income to keep up the payments on behalf of us all. Since they are upset since they will likely be losing their land, a "lawyer friend" of theirs notifies the US bankruptcy court about husband's interest in the off shore deal. Now, the courts now view us as criminals since we committed perjury. Yes we messed up. We are prepared to take the punishment, but it's 2.5 years later, and this is stll OPEN.

10/2004: Husband sells his small business to care for our daughter full time and I am hired for a position in Reston, VA. Since lawyer #1 tells us we can sell our house, we put our house on the market and move into an apt. in Fairfax, VA.

11/2004: Offer on house accepted.
11/04 through 3/95: Extensions occur on house contract. Lawyer #1 doesn't tell us that the bankruptcy court needs to release our house from our "assets". Only when I talk to the title company am I informed that the title cannot be released. (The courts hoped we would have foreclosed on the house, but we continue to pay our mortgage plus the apt. rent in Fairfax County throughout this time.)The court is petitioned to release the house and title. Settlement dates are made and extended.

3/2005: Courts refuse to release title to house. People who made offer on house are upset, but it's not our fault as we were misled. More bad blood!

6/2005: We ultimately take an early break on our lease and move back into our house.

10/05: Attorney #2 hired. Same stuff, different day. At least this one is computer literate and has a direct link into the MD systems. We are told that our house is not necessarily safe from the courts. Attorney #2 assures us that he is THE MAN and he will go to court with us to prevent our house from being taken and EXPEDITE discharge for me and whatever penalty awaits my husband.

2/06: Trustee "officially" hired (same Venable guy who presided over 341 mtg in 12/03)

5/06: The definition of insanity includes doing the same thing over and over and expecting a different result.

We made a mistake. Please don't tell us how stupid we are; we already know that. Our marriage has barely survived this. My husband is very close to a nervous breakdown (I already had mine...) How long is too long to wait for resolution? Any thoughts as to what to expect next? When will we expect to be discharged? If my husband is fined and/or imprisoned, when might we expect to hear this information? And, although we were prepared for our credit to be lousy for the next 7-10 years after discharge, is it not fair to expect a timely discharge? Now it's going to be 10-13 years...

Any insight is appreciated. Kindest regards.

[Bobby'sGirl]

Sending you a "poor baby"

and think you need a little hand holding here. Give hubby a kiss and little one a hug to remind yourself what matters, and a pat on your own back for taking on role as family breadwinner, and searching out info and support on this forum. While we cannot give definitive answers many times we can point you in right direction. I'm wondering if you have a separate lawyer yet to handle potential proceedings against your husband. It may be a mistake to let the BK lawyer handle everything; search out posts here in archives about the "buddy" system in some jurisdictions between trustees and attorneys who won't risk pushing BK court too much --- could impact their future cases moving smoothly. At the least, hubbie needs someone to consult with BK lawyer with expertise in what may be a federal criminal case. This won't be something that 90+% of the lawyers listed in the phone book can deal with. Someone who has worked as a former federal prosecutor may be worth checking out for at least a consult to answer some "what if" questions you have. This may help you both breathe a little more easily at least knowing what may be typical results of a case like your husband's: a slap on the wrist fine, or actual time in a federal "country club" lockup...

[SinkingFast]

It's not your fault!!

You did what you were advised to do by the "Professional Experts" you hired to represent you.

I can't even begin to imagine what you've been living thru the last few years.

And to be tied to the BK Court the whole time!! UGH!!

What none of the attnys have explained to you is, well lots, but we'll start with this one.

The day you filed BK, everything you owned, all cash monies, all investments, your house, your cars, your furniture, EVERYTHING, became a part of your BK Estate. That essentially means, although you retain posession of your things, they technically belong to the BK Court. And the Trustee oversees the BK Estate.

So that's where they are getting you on not disclosing the debts on the house and cars. It's not the debt. It's the equity in the assets. The fact that the house and the cars technically belong to the Court. And even tho the off shore deal was a handshake and a promise, since you did not disclose that initially, it looks to the Court like you were trying to siphon off cash to stash it where the Court could not get it.

It's all a big misunderstanding for an honest person. The problem is, the Court isn't used to dealing with honest people. Typically people who've done similar things, did it to try and hide assets from the Court.

Maybe there's a former Trustee in your area that might take over your BK Case for you. See if you can't find one to Consult with. Explain everything that's going on. I'd think once a REAL BK attny, who's got half a brain in thier head saw your files, they'd know you've been duped. Plus a former Trustee knows how Trustees think and work. May even be friends with the current Trustee. Sometimes that's a big chunk of the battle. The inter personal relationship your attny has with the members of the Court. If you get an attny that's well respected to represent you, maybe the Court will forgive some of your previous attny's errors on your behalf.

[aa06a47]

All in all here, I don't think the trustee is the person to blame. From what I've read, the trustee is probably acting in the best interest of the bk estate and you cannot really blame him for that. I like to gripe and complain about my trustee, but he is just trying to make sure everything is on the up and up.

First mistake you have to blame the attorney who did your case. When the trustee cryed foul at the 341 meeting, an amendement to the plan listing all creditors left off the first filing should have been added. No sweat. Second mistake was not the lawyers, but not disclosing assets (off shore real estate). Was you trying to hide them from the court hoping some day they would hit it big, only you can answer that. I am sure that is what the trustee thinks. Since it appears that the off shore deal is what put you in financial perril, I would have thought it would have had to been disclosed.

I agree, I think you might need to go a speciality route with an attorney and your husbands defense.

This is to all.....research before you do bankruptcy, your lawyer doesn't tell you everything you need to know. What you say, and sign, can and will be used against you if it is not correct.

[katosbo]

Gee, aa06a47 - thank you for rubbing salt in my wounds and putting words in my mouth (or on my fingertips). This is exactly what I don't need right now. You know what they say about people in glass houses...

I do want to thank Bobby'sGirl and SinkingFast for their prompt and succinct advice.

Take care everyone.