filing without an attorney?

[monlyba]

i have read so much about filing on your own (that is what pro se means, right?) and i would love to do it myself since attorneys charge so much and my case (i think) is fairly simple... but still the thought of it makes me really nervous. i know many people say it's not too bad and then others say no way i would do that on my own, it's too much. just wondered if anyone here who did it could give me some advice and tips. i was thinking of ordering that nolo book mentioned here but was trying to figure out if i should even spend the money on that because i'm not sure if i would go through with it! is it mostly just a matter of doing a lot of reading and filling out paperwork and then going to the courthouse to "turn them in" (file)? what else is involved in representing yourself? do i have to speak to a lot of people about my situation?

[SinkingFast]

Hi Monlyba!!

Welcome to the Forum!!

Several people here have indeed filed Pro Se under the New Law. You're on the right track with looking at getting the Nolo Book.

If you have a basic, straight forward case, no assets, below the Median, then you should have a fairly easy time with the help of folks here.

Also, at the top of several of the sections of the Forum are some "Stickies" you might wanna take a look at. There's one thread on "What Trustees Look For". There are others with very helpful info. You might get a PACER acct and look at some filings by attnys in your area to see what they are claiming.

Also, several people have referenced different places you can access online editable forms. Most are in .pdf format, I think, but you could type your info right into the forms that way. Try searching past threads for forms.

[so-beyond-broke]

Yes going pro-se is possible

Hi Monlyba

Nolo has the newer (13th ed) of the Ch 7 BK book out and they also have another book (about the BK laws and if its right for you- I don't have the exact title in front of me). These are good books to read about bk whether you file on your own or use an atty. You need to be familarized for yourself about a BK proceeding. you can't simply leave it to the hands of an atty and turn a blind eye because they can mess up (although with the new laws there's more accountability on their part which is part of the reason why their fees have increased). You may also come across an atty for whatever reason is not as dedicated to your case as they should.

I filed pro-se in April and I was scared to death because I kept hearing stories that due to the new laws it would not be in my best interest. I had been experiencing financial difficulty for a pretty long time and did not have $$ to give to an atty to handle something that I felt competent doing myself.

I realized last X-mas that I needed some relief, but even at that time I didn't even have the BK fee to spare. I made a New Years Resolution that I refused to spend another year in my situation. I figured that when I got some $$ from my tax return I would file (I also needed to have a strategic method of planning my Bk in a sense that would maximize my filing - i.e. filing after my refund was spent on needed things so that it could not be an asset). So from January until my filing, I read books, hung out at this forum each day and did alot of research online. I even downloaded and typed in my info with an electric typewritter (we the people wanted $400 to do this). I also had a PACER acct and I read other people's filings to get an idea of how it was done, what was exempted, etc.

The 341 was exactly 5 weeks after I filed and it was simple because I had a no-asset case. Another 7 weeks later I had a reaffirmation hearing for my car and 1 week later I was discharged. Now I am in the process of rebuilding and hoping that I never get into the same situation again.

You really must ask yourself is BK something you really want to do? If it is you must really educate yourself with the process whether you are doing it alone or with an atty. Once you start there's no turning back and when you are going through the process (and afterwards) you will begin to learn who is your real friends and family.

Either way you chose - you will find a great group of people here who are total strangers but they are experiencing the same things so that you have a shoulder to "cry" on or vent. I have been part of this forum since January and I have received more emotional support here than with my own family. They're not in my shoes so they can't really understand.

sbb

[krobin02]

I too filed pro-se back in January. I did not have the help of any books. I did a couple of hours online researching after I printed out the forms and filled them out then filed them the next day. The hardest part of that was hunting down the correct law numbers (whatever they're called). The 341 was a piece of cake. If you're a no asset, straight-foward case then you'll do just fine.

[down @ out]

filing pro-se

You ask a very importent question. I filed pro-se under the old laws and everything worked out fine because I took the time to educate myself on the laws, visit 341 hearings and above all simply listen to what folks were saying and reading as much as possible on the whole process.

1. Attorneys: From what I have seen you have to be nuts to trust an attorney. The ones I observed at the 341 hearings were at best worthless and can do a lot of damage because most simply do not give a damn. They are there to make money and generally will not take the time or make the effort to do right by you. When I went to my 341 hearing I was better prepared than all of the folks represented by attorneys. In a few instances the trustee went absolutly nuts at attorneys for not doing their homework and was postponing hearings to give the attorneys additional time to do what should have been done previously. If you use an attorney educate yourself so you understand what he is saying and make the decisions that are best for you. A bankruptcy is probably one of the most importent things you will do in your life. Make damn sure it is done right.

2. Trustees: My trustee was a decent sort and I gave her everthiny she asked for before the hearing. I was completely honest with her and you could tell it made a difference. Don`t screw with trustees they can make life miserable for you and some are jerks, not doubt but a lot seem to be doing the right thing as best they can. I know my trustee said it was refreshing to do with someone that took the time to understand what was going on. I didn`t tell her but one of my main reasons in doing so was simply fear. A bankruptcy process is like going swiming with great white sharks, carry a big stick and trust no one.

3. Creditors: File honestly and if anyone files a claim fight to the death. Drag their worthless ass into a bankruptcy court and burn up as much of their cash as you can. This is where attorneys can do the most damage to you. Lets say a creditor says you shafted them and for only 4000.00 they will let it go. A lot of attorneys will simply cave in and have you through away good money. I had one credit card company that had a hissy fit and I told them to eat shit and die. Told them to lets get it on, that I welcomed the opportunity to duke it out and they backed down real quick. The bottem feeding trash.

Keep in mind none of us should be ashamed of this if we are not being dishonest. The whole process is a mess and you must understand it if you are going to get out alive.

One final thought, looking for ethics in the bankruptcy system is like trying to find a priest in a cat house. It ain`t going to happen.

Good luck and God bless

Down @ Out

[monlyba]

thanks for your tips. the more i hear from people who have done it, the more encouraged i get... but i really don't know anything about this stuff so i guess i have a lot of research and reading to do. i have no assets, one car that is financed that i guess i will want to keep, and very low income (self-employed) and just a lot of old debt (mostly cc's and medical bills) that i need to get rid of because i will never be able to catch up.

i have already given an attorney $100 for a retainer fee but he hasn't done anything for me yet... i wonder if i can get that back?

[krobin02]

i wonder if i can get that back?

Unfortunately... you probably won't.

[confusedinVA]

My hsusband and I filed pro se very recently. Our 341 is September 11. If you are going to file on your own definitely get the Nolo Book. It is a wonderful book. It gives examples and step by step instructions on how to fill out the forms. Also, stay in touch with this forum. Everyone was so helpful to me. Look at the stickys, they are a huge help. You can also use the search feature to look up old Q&A's. Those are useful too.

Good luck.

[miss puff]

Hi Monlyba! Me and my husband just filed pro-se last week. The advice to get the Nolo Book was the best ever. It has such good information and line by line instructions. This forum has been a god-send too. If I was reading something in the Nolo book and it was just not making sense to me, I could find the answer here or post the question and get it answered. Also, if you look up your states bankruptcy page on the internet, it should have all the forms and filing instructions as well. Good luck.

[monlyba]

cool - i think i'm gonna go for it! i'm going to get that book.

[SinkingFast]

i have already given an attorney $100 for a retainer fee but he hasn't done anything for me yet... i wonder if i can get that back?

Probably he hasn't done anything because he's waiting on the rest of his fee first. But,.........

Our current attny said if we weren't happy with him and chose to leave and wanted our fee back, all we had to do was ask for the money. That he would return it to us. He said any decent, respectable attny should.

So you could ask for the retainer fee back. Can't hurt to try. Worst that can happen is the attny says NO. Best case, you get back your money.

[monlyba]

alrighty - well i ordered the book from Amazon (just under $19, and i ordered something else to get the total over $25 so i could get free shipping!). so hopefully it will make some sense to me. i'm going to call the attorney's office in the morning (my appt is supposed to be at 11:30) and just tell them i'm not sure what i'm going to do for a while and see if they will give me the $100 back. i gave it to him about a year ago (!) so i could understand if they say no way on giving it back, but i guess i'll try. a hundred bucks could help out a lot right now...



ETA:

ARGHGHGHHHH... *sigh*... the more i read about bankruptcy online, the more i doubt myself being able to handle doing it without an attorney. i just don't know what to do. i meet with my attorney tomorrow so i guess i will see what kind of vibe i get from him. i hate to "waste" money on him if i can do it myself, but then again i feel so overwhelmed with it all. i guess i need to just chill out and wait til the book comes and read it and then make up my mind. i can't wait til this is all over with!