Debt Negotiations with Chase, Discover, Citi, Capital One, GE Money Bank

[catleg]

So you are saying you know the five account numbers you owe one creditor but deliberately don't list them all when you file hoping to reduce the amount you have to pay that creditor if they file a 13 claim....that's definitely not filing in good faith. You are withholding known information hoping to personally benefit.

No, you misunderstand. I am saying to document everything with respect to the original creditor, including balance and account number. But play dumb with respect to any subsequent buyers of the debt who come along, since you never had any agreement or obligation to them. If you can discourage them from filing a proof or can raise an objection to it, it might benefit the debtor.

[OhioFiler]

So you are saying you know the five account numbers you owe one creditor but deliberately don't list them all when you file hoping to reduce the amount you have to pay that creditor if they file a 13 claim....that's definitely not filing in good faith. You are withholding known information hoping to personally benefit.

If he has listed the creditor I think the burden falls on the creditor to file the claim. I don't see that as withholding information.

[lrprn]

Not saying that you shouldn't list your (e.g.) 5 Citibank accounts, just don't go out of your way to help anybody file a proof if they happen to come along during the early stages of your Chapter 13 case prior to the bar date for claims. Is that illegal or unethical? Sounds like it might but I'm not sure.

So you are saying you know the five account numbers you owe one creditor but deliberately don't list them all when you file hoping to reduce the amount you have to pay that creditor if they file a 13 claim....that's definitely not filing in good faith. You are withholding known information hoping to personally benefit.

[catleg]

My point is that perhaps in a Chapter 13 you can reduce the length of your plan, or have excess money paid back or to secured creditors, if you can reduce your unsecured proofs of claim this way. Not saying that you shouldn't list your (e.g.) 5 Citibank accounts, just don't go out of your way to help anybody file a proof if they happen to come along during the early stages of your Chapter 13 case prior to the bar date for claims. Is that illegal or unethical? Sounds like it might but I'm not sure.

[catleg]

From a legal standpoint, if I for whatever reason, do not list a JDB on a CITI account, and in my Ch.13, months later get collection phone calls based on some junk debt, where do I stand?

I would say that clearly it must be sufficient to list "just" the OC for each account in your BK papers otherwise you would be defenseless against all subsequent JDB's.

Likewise the JDB is very likely going to pay someone to do a BK screen on his portfolio of accounts (the same way they do a deceased screen) to weed out the ones which are not worth pursuing.

Therefore if they were to contact you after your filing but before your bar date for proofs of claim, it might be best to just not respond at that time rather than inform them. Maybe DV/C&D instead.

Maybe this is a little "guerilla", but maybe smart tactics, no?

[BigJohn]

This would be a good time to see your lawyer to see if you can add them to your matrix.

[optimistic1]

I'll add this...OC's often send out the debt to consecutive CA's when previous CA's have no luck. Once the OC has truly sold the debt, they have no right to continued collections. The debt is now in the hands of a JDB. DO not confuse a third-party debt collection company with an actual buyer of debt. While both are third-party under the FDCPA, the legal owner of the debt is not the same.

In a BK 13 case, I think it is very important that you know who actually owns the debt, an dhave them included in the matrix. Hell, I would include everyone, OC's, CA's, and JDB's just to cover my butt should I file. If Citi or others have actually sold the debt, then why on earth would they forward a POC to a BK 13 trustee? They have no interest in it.

From a legal standpoint, if I for whatever reason, do not list a JDB on a CITI account, and in my Ch.13, months later get collection phone calls based on some junk debt, where do I stand?

[treehugger1]

Because somewhere in the fine print, you acknowledged their right to proceed with collection activity and/or arbitration should you default.

[spidge]

Do most allow payments of some sort?

Any thoughts here?

[spidge]

I don't understand why it is not law that anyone who sell a credit obligation that the borrower be notified. PERIOD.

[BigJohn]

Right, so my question is, if you file for BK, is it sufficient to list the debt as still owned by/owed to the OC? Cause really, they don't notify you when they sell it, you really have no way of knowing who the current creditor is except when they try to collect on it. In particular if you DV a JDB and they do not respond you have a reason to believe that they do not own it. You just know that *somebody* owns it.

For clarification, after you file Bankruptcy, the creditor or the JDB might sell the debt, and if the debt is sold, the debtor is not notified.

[treehugger1]

Exactly why you should include anyone an deveryone who you know may have been associated with the debt. I don't know how important this is in a BK7, but it could be important in a BK 13 and the trustee's office would need to sort this out.

[catleg]

Right, so my question is, if you file for BK, is it sufficient to list the debt as still owned by/owed to the OC? Cause really, they don't notify you when they sell it, you really have no way of knowing who the current creditor is except when they try to collect on it. In particular if you DV a JDB and they do not respond you have a reason to believe that they do not own it. You just know that *somebody* owns it.

[treehugger1]

I'll add this...OC's often send out the debt to consecutive CA's when previous CA's have no luck. Once the OC has truly sold the debt, they have no right to continued collections. The debt is now in the hands of a JDB. DO not confuse a third-party debt collection company with an actual buyer of debt. While both are third-party under the FDCPA, the legal owner of the debt is not the same.

In a BK 13 case, I think it is very important that you know who actually owns the debt, an dhave them included in the matrix. Hell, I would include everyone, OC's, CA's, and JDB's just to cover my butt should I file. If Citi or others have actually sold the debt, then why on earth would they forward a POC to a BK 13 trustee? They have no interest in it.

[treehugger1]

I'll clarify based on my experience. OC's often assign your debt to outside collections but they continue "owning" the debt. At other times they "sell" the debt to a third party (JDB, etc.) I have only one BOA account that was sold to a JDB. I notice that on my credit report BOA reports a $0 balance and "paid." The JDB who bought the debt shows as a "collection." THey also show the "debt is disputed by the consumer," which it is. Isent their out-of-state contracted attorney firm a DV and they never replied (8 - 10 months ago.)

I realized that the debt was no longer "assigned" for collection when I saw the $0 balance on my CR. The many months of late payments are still reported as is the chargeoff. However, they (BOA) appear to have stopped reporting to the CRA's after they sold the debt, other than to post "paid."

Prior to the OC selling the debt, it bounced through several CA's. EVerytime I DV'd them, the account went back to BOA.