Second suit is coming in quick.

[espo1357]

People worry too much about whether it is called judgment proof or collection proof. They are really the same thing.

But since debt collectors know that I am collection proof, they usually don't bother trying to get a judgment against me, so in that sense, I guess you could say I am judgment proof.


My home is rented. I don't own any real estate. I don't intend to ever own any real estate. I like to be able to move around to get away from bad neighbors and stuff like that.

My only vehicle is currently worth less than $5,000 (according to the Kelly Blue Book) which is exempt under Arizona law. It's not new and pretty, but it gets me where I want to go.

I don't have a checking account. No savings account, no investments. Which also means no fees for bouncing checks, etc.

I use cash, money orders, and pre-paid Visa cards for everything. I find that I spend far less when I have to hand over cash to some cashier at a store or restaurant.

I do temp jobs that last for no more than a month or two at best. Most last less than one month. By the time they started garnishing wages, the job would be over, and I would be moving on to a different job. I get these jobs at a free job service which posts temporary job listings in my area. A lot of people aren't willing to work at temp jobs, but they are good money (as long as you live cheaply) and they give me flexibility to go on lots of vacations to places like Oregon (to visit relatives) whenever I feel like it. I'm not tied down to job. To be honest, I don't think I could handle a regular job that went on month after month, year after year. It would be horrible for someone like me.

The other things I do are self-employed things that are very difficult (and time consuming which is expensive for lawyers) for any creditor to figure out. I certainly would never volunteer this information to any creditor and I honestly don't know how they would ever figure it out. In the unlikely event that they did a judgment exam, my self employment could suddenly, easily, and voluntarily drop to zero, so they still wouldn't get anything. The kind of work I do requires just a few cheap tools (which are exempt under Arizona law), and no inventory. I just buy stuff at Home Depot when I need it for a job, rather than keep an inventory. Creditors would have nothing to seize.

I do not use credit for anything. I will not even apply for a job that checks my credit report. My credit report has no recent activity. That looks bad to a debt collector.

I understand that most people would not want to live this way, but for those who want to drop below creditor radar screens, this is the way to go.

then can garnish.

[flyinbroke]

I am tempted to actually take a call and when I get this stuff...ask if they prefer my Ferrari or my Learjet....

[Lissy]

When debt collectors call up saying they will take my vehicle, they are bluffing. One of them even called me saying they were going to take my boat. I don't even own a boat.

Thank you for a much needed chuckle! I can only imagine the fun you had with that threat. LOL!

[GoingDown]

I error on the side of caution, and use private party used value. The point is that I really don't care what they do. If they seize a vehicle, I expect my $2150 exemption paid to me. It won't break my heart if they take my vehcles. Just two more payments I would not have to worry about. On the other hand, I do need my vehicles, but in a pinch I could use public transit systems, bicycle, and rent a car for temporary long distance travel issues. I'm not married to my vehicles, but I do expect my state exemptions to be honored.

That's the way I feel too. If they want to pay me my $5000 vehicle exemption, they can have my old beat up truck, and I will go get another one.

The truth of the matter is that they don't want my old crappy truck. They won't get any money out of it. It will just end up costing them money to take it and they still won't get the debt paid at all.

When debt collectors call up saying they will take my vehicle, they are bluffing. One of them even called me saying they were going to take my boat. I don't even own a boat. They just lie all the time.

[treehugger1]

I error on the side of caution, and use private party used value. The point is that I really don't care what they do. If they seize a vehicle, I expect my $2150 exemption paid to me. It won't break my heart if they take my vehcles. Just two more payments I would not have to worry about. On the other hand, I do need my vehicles, but in a pinch I could use public transit systems, bicycle, and rent a car for temporary long distance travel issues. I'm not married to my vehicles, but I do expect my state exemptions to be honored.

[jacko]

For your vehicle, are you going by auto dealer trade in value to determine exemption?

And, if you claim your exemptions and challenge the seizures, they would have to come up with your exemption amount. If your houshold furnishings have a $3000.00 exemption, they have to cover that exemption amount before they pay themselves. They do not want to play this game. cars are the same way. In Oregon the automobile exemption amount is $2150 for one vehicle. Neither of my vehicles have that much equity. They can have either one for $2150.00 in my pocket. And, they would have to payoff the current lienholders. I doubt there is much risk in them dinking around with such matters.

[anykey]

I try not to pay anything too far in advance- because life is fragile- I could die - so why pay too soon?

on the other hand- I likely will live- in which case- I will be deliriously happy- and surely then i will gladly pay. See?

[treehugger1]

Oops, I meant to say there is great risk for them to play the exemption game with anyone who knows how to use such exemptions.

[DYLAN150]

Yes, in Washington there is a 125K homestead act which protects the first 125k of a person's equity. My house has gone down in value. Way down.

[treehugger1]

And, if you claim your exemptions and challenge the seizures, they would have to come up with your exemption amount. If your houshold furnishings have a $3000.00 exemption, they have to cover that exemption amount before they pay themselves. They do not want to play this game. cars are the same way. In Oregon the automobile exemption amount is $2150 for one vehicle. Neither of my vehicles have that much equity. They can have either one for $2150.00 in my pocket. And, they would have to payoff the current lienholders. I doubt there is much risk in them dinking around with such matters.

[GoingDown]

Just wondering what makes you judgement proof. The reason I ask, I am going down the same road but just started. My income is Mil retirement, VA disability and Social Security. House is 120K underwater, car upside down and no real assets other household furniture and cloths.
Thanks

Social Security and disability are exempt, but don't keep it in a checking account. SS offers a debit card if you don't have a checking account. I would imagine VA disability would offer one, too. Not sure about Military retirement. I would think it would be exempt as well. Check with a local attorney about that.

They don't want upside homes or cars. In other words, they won't try to take them from you and sell them. But they might still put a lien on them to prevent you from selling them without first paying off their lien. If you don't plan on moving or selling your vehicle, then it really doesn't matter.

They are not interested in your used furniture or used clothes. Think of how much it would cost to seize them, transport them, insure them, and then auction them off? Then think of how little they would bring at auction. They would end up losing money. They may threaten this, but they would be lying to you.

[GoingDown]

Going Down: am I to assume you you don;t even have a checking account or anything like that for creditors to grab?....no job wages to garnish? Is that what you mean by "Judgement Proof" ?

People worry too much about whether it is called judgment proof or collection proof. They are really the same thing.

But since debt collectors know that I am collection proof, they usually don't bother trying to get a judgment against me, so in that sense, I guess you could say I am judgment proof.


My home is rented. I don't own any real estate. I don't intend to ever own any real estate. I like to be able to move around to get away from bad neighbors and stuff like that.

My only vehicle is currently worth less than $5,000 (according to the Kelly Blue Book) which is exempt under Arizona law. It's not new and pretty, but it gets me where I want to go.

I don't have a checking account. No savings account, no investments. Which also means no fees for bouncing checks, etc.

I use cash, money orders, and pre-paid Visa cards for everything. I find that I spend far less when I have to hand over cash to some cashier at a store or restaurant.

I do temp jobs that last for no more than a month or two at best. Most last less than one month. By the time they started garnishing wages, the job would be over, and I would be moving on to a different job. I get these jobs at a free job service which posts temporary job listings in my area. A lot of people aren't willing to work at temp jobs, but they are good money (as long as you live cheaply) and they give me flexibility to go on lots of vacations to places like Oregon (to visit relatives) whenever I feel like it. I'm not tied down to job. To be honest, I don't think I could handle a regular job that went on month after month, year after year. It would be horrible for someone like me.

The other things I do are self-employed things that are very difficult (and time consuming which is expensive for lawyers) for any creditor to figure out. I certainly would never volunteer this information to any creditor and I honestly don't know how they would ever figure it out. In the unlikely event that they did a judgment exam, my self employment could suddenly, easily, and voluntarily drop to zero, so they still wouldn't get anything. The kind of work I do requires just a few cheap tools (which are exempt under Arizona law), and no inventory. I just buy stuff at Home Depot when I need it for a job, rather than keep an inventory. Creditors would have nothing to seize.

I do not use credit for anything. I will not even apply for a job that checks my credit report. My credit report has no recent activity. That looks bad to a debt collector.

I understand that most people would not want to live this way, but for those who want to drop below creditor radar screens, this is the way to go.

[flyinbroke]

If you live in Texas, NC, SC, or PA wage garnishment is not allowed unless you owe child support or taxes. Bank accounts can be fair game though.

[WhatMoney]

Just wondering what makes you judgement proof. The reason I ask, I am going down the same road but just started. My income is Mil retirement, VA disability and Social Security. House is 120K underwater, car upside down and no real assets other household furniture and cloths.
Thanks

What makes one "judgment proof" (aka collection proof/aka execution proof/aka "you can try to take my assets but you'll have to give them back", is your State's exemption list. If everything you own/receive is listed on the exemption list they can't legally seize it. If you are working they can garnish up to 25% of your wages in most States, but there are low-income restrictions to wage garnishment too. It's all listed in your State's civil code.

You appear to be "judgment proof". Creditors go after wages, bank accounts, and autos and homes with equity, in that order. They don't want your "stuff".

[ryan]

Going Down: am I to assume you you don;t even have a checking account or anything like that for creditors to grab?....no job wages to garnish? Is that what you mean by "Judgement Proof" ?