probably days away from a default judgment - now what?

[tacomeat]

Well Tacomeat, only you can make the present decisions that will impact your future.

you're talking about suicide right, "loadedguns"?

[LoadedGuns]

Well Tacomeat, only you can make the present decisions that will impact your future.

[tacomeat]

It disturbed me simply for the mere fact that you yourself stated
"...if this has been such a burden for me these past 5 years. bottom line - doesnt seem like something you can just craft out of thin air at the last minute (not that i was trying to do that) and it would also be pretty expensive to do (my situation wouldnt warrant this...". So - has it been a burden to you or not? People usually dont say "If"....and they ususally dont ask their lawyer if it can be used as a defense...

THAT is offensive to those that truly are mentally disabled or physically disabled. It reads that it hasnt been that much of a burden to you and you were trying to use it as a defense against an AP, plain and simple. Perhaps you should read how you come across in your postings before you hit the "POST" button hmm?

I dont really care one way or another how you go about doing what you're doing - my biggest issue in your posting is that you ARE trying to get around your assets and you yourself have posted just that. Say what you will, try to justify yourself however you desire, but in the end, its your own wording that says it all. If its legal you shouldnt have to justify anything, right? I find it hard to commiserate with you, and if that offends you, my apologies for that, but its the way you are coming across that puts the lack of empathy on my part towards you.

If you truly have a mental illness - then I feel your pain and you have my utmost sympathy. I wish you well in that and that you may get the desired help you require. However - dont use that as a tool to justify your means. You on one had state you cannot work, then you state you will go out to get a job, albeit part time, so it "looks good" - then will quit later on. If you truly had those mental issues with working and people - ...well... just sayin'

As I said, good luck to you and I hope it all works out the way you desire it to. I have nothing more to add or say at this juncture.

All my best to you and yours.

ETA: and if you're wondering why I'm just now posting my "concerns" - its because you keep asking the same questions and "how to's" to get around things.

1. you apparently dont understand the meaning or function of the word "if." you are inferring a devious angle to it, where in fact i meant it as this - " IF its deemed by a mental health professional that i have a justifiable problem that has altered my ability/judgment to manage my finances and then IF that diagnoses is an allowable defense during an AP, then what are the chances of that actually working IF i even get hit with an AP." what im saying is , i have some problems that have been psychologically diagnosed in the past when i had health insurance and was getting treatment, but i dont know IF they are the right kind of problems to mount a JUSTIFIABLE LEGAL defense around on this issue today. do you see the difference? moreover, at the time, it was never discussed how my problems effected my financial management abilities, so they other "if" in there is if its possible to get diagnosed today with my financial picture as the specific context.

2. you keep repeating the idea that i am trying to (illegally) "get around things." the illegal part is a conclusion you are jumping to in your own head. again, it would seem implied that i am trying to LEGALLY "get around" (ie, address) my issues for the best LAWFUL outcome that i can have.

3. where have i stated that i am trying to ILLEGALLY hide assets? (seriously, i want to know ). but if i did, it was only within the context of of a hypothetical - in trying to determine what the boundaries are at different stages of this process to garner the best outcome that i can hope to have.

4. all of your "problems" with me seem to be rooted in some form of morality - some form of right or wrong. as it relates to this issue, i am emphatically amoral (to keep you up to speed, that is different from immoral) and am fine with using any legal (and cost effective) means for discharging my debt.

[tacomeat]

Catleg, my first two were by a JDB (Nemdegelt with Ugly Duckling, Nemdegelt with Bank of America) in superior court both the JDB and OC were listed. The final one was by a local OC in magistrate court. The magistrate court one was the one that concerned me more than the other two.

I wasn't counting on being able to win but rather I was counting on being able to delay the cases from going to judgment and costing the JDB money in the process. I needed time to get my divorce through and for my six month average income to be just a bit lower.

Filing an answer in my state, Georgia is free. I simply went to the courthouse found someone else that had been sued by this JDB and had used an attorney. I paid 25 cents for a copy of their answer and edited it with my case info. There were two motions for summary judgment... I found an objection to those in a case, same editing. We also had interrogatories. Same process. Managed to delay over a year.

the answer was going to cost me $160. seemed like a waste of money to simply delay the inevitable. and in actuality, there probably is nothing the creditor can seize of mine. its just that in one of my free consults, the attorney said they can actually seize exempt items, at which point i would have to to re-claim them.

so i guess i just made an educated decision that a lot of steps would have to happen for them to actually seize my stuff - and within the next 2 months.
so, hopefully i saved myself $160, but one never knows... haha

[Bell30656]

Catleg, my first two were by a JDB (Nemdegelt with Ugly Duckling, Nemdegelt with Bank of America) in superior court both the JDB and OC were listed. The final one was by a local OC in magistrate court. The magistrate court one was the one that concerned me more than the other two.

I wasn't counting on being able to win but rather I was counting on being able to delay the cases from going to judgment and costing the JDB money in the process. I needed time to get my divorce through and for my six month average income to be just a bit lower.

Filing an answer in my state, Georgia is free. I simply went to the courthouse found someone else that had been sued by this JDB and had used an attorney. I paid 25 cents for a copy of their answer and edited it with my case info. There were two motions for summary judgment... I found an objection to those in a case, same editing. We also had interrogatories. Same process. Managed to delay over a year.

[keptdigging]

So I didn't read the whole thread... but having $1,000 in your wallet is hardly hiding an asset. Having $1000 in your wallet or mattress and not declaring it in your chapter 7 is hiding an asset.

Tacomeat is hardly the first person to do stupid and/or questionable things, only to subsequently learn (often here) that they are stupid/questionable things, and they need to put some time between such things and a bk filing.

And the Ch 7 panel trustee's job is to look for assets: actual, hidden, or preferential transfers that can be used to pay creditors. Deciding that original charges were fraudulently made is up to the creditors themselves, and requires filing Adversary Proceedings. Theoretically possible even a year out... but no one has an actual story of that happening 12 months later. And even if one did, only that creditors specific charges would be at risk.

I think tacomeat is going through enough hell and the risks shouldn't be overstated.

A lot of us got here other than "lost my job and can't pay the medical bills from my wife or kid's near death encounter" route. But society decided years ago not to lock us up for borrowing money... and we're doing our best to repent and sin no more.

[catleg]

Depends on your state. An answer costs money. And is usually quickly followed by a motion for summary judgment. If you don't know how to answer that you're sunk and you're out the cost of the answer. Finally,
once you answer you've acknowledged the jurisdiction of the court over you.
It all depends on your specific situation. Basically courts are designed to handle these kind of cases somewhat efficiently, I hate holding out false hope.

Were your cases filed by OC's or debt buyers? It normally makes a big difference. OC's are tough if not impossible to beat in court, JDB's not so much.

[Bell30656]

Just curious as to why you wouldn't file an answer? Filing an answer can really delay the process for many months. You can simply go to the courthouse look up another case similar to your then use that to make your answer. Mine basically said; I admit to statement #1 (my name, address,etc.) and I deny statements #2 through #7.

I was served Nov 2007, Feb 2008 and Nov 2008 (three lawsuits) and when I filed in Dec 2008 none of them had made it to court. You have to love a backed up court system.

[Pandora]

why would you take offense if i am in fact mentally ill? if you did take offense, why not address it in that thread instead of this one? besides, who are you to say i am or am not mentally ill? or to imply that i am ONLY using it to justify a devious course of action. why couldnt it be true on both counts? why couldnt i use my mental illness as an explanation if it was legal to do so? and to that point, if this was all an elaborately planned out scheme, might i not have been setting up that defense from the onset? for someone who has been tracking my posts, you either dont seem to be getting the gist of them, or you are trying to read way to much into them because the running theme is in fact HOW am i going to (legally) justify my debt so that it all gets discharged!

so i appreciate your "concern" about how my situation might look suspicious, but seeing how ive already thought the same thing from pretty much my first post and have been seeking help in that respect from several angles on most of my posts, i dont see how you are contributing anything substantive to my situation - be it the bankruptcy or the judgment. you didnt offer anything of importance regarding the specifics of what the UST does, you arent really commiserating with me in my situation, but you did bring up a month old case about being offended, and you have made several assumptions about whether im lying, cheating, scheming, defrauding, or what have you. that about sums it up, right?

It disturbed me simply for the mere fact that you yourself stated
"...if this has been such a burden for me these past 5 years. bottom line - doesnt seem like something you can just craft out of thin air at the last minute (not that i was trying to do that) and it would also be pretty expensive to do (my situation wouldnt warrant this...". So - has it been a burden to you or not? People usually dont say "If"....and they ususally dont ask their lawyer if it can be used as a defense...

THAT is offensive to those that truly are mentally disabled or physically disabled. It reads that it hasnt been that much of a burden to you and you were trying to use it as a defense against an AP, plain and simple. Perhaps you should read how you come across in your postings before you hit the "POST" button hmm?

I dont really care one way or another how you go about doing what you're doing - my biggest issue in your posting is that you ARE trying to get around your assets and you yourself have posted just that. Say what you will, try to justify yourself however you desire, but in the end, its your own wording that says it all. If its legal you shouldnt have to justify anything, right? I find it hard to commiserate with you, and if that offends you, my apologies for that, but its the way you are coming across that puts the lack of empathy on my part towards you.

If you truly have a mental illness - then I feel your pain and you have my utmost sympathy. I wish you well in that and that you may get the desired help you require. However - dont use that as a tool to justify your means. You on one had state you cannot work, then you state you will go out to get a job, albeit part time, so it "looks good" - then will quit later on. If you truly had those mental issues with working and people - ...well... just sayin'

As I said, good luck to you and I hope it all works out the way you desire it to. I have nothing more to add or say at this juncture.

All my best to you and yours.

ETA: and if you're wondering why I'm just now posting my "concerns" - its because you keep asking the same questions and "how to's" to get around things.

[tacomeat]

Nope - just curious as to how you thought the trustee or UST would look at it is all. From outside looking in, it appears from my point of view, that it may possibly be viewed as fraud and I was just wondering how you were planning on handling that aspect if it arose. Debt is debt is debt, doesnt matter what you bought, what matters is how you got there - was it planned out to defraud at the end? I think thats how the courts look at it in general. I dont understand how you can take 60K in withdraws from your cards, have them deposited into your bank account and pay your bills off of that money for 3-4 years (your words not mine) and then not expect to have it frowned upon is all. it wasnt your money used to pay your debts when you quit working - it was the banks money used as a deposit into your bank account. How do you answer that question to the trustee when the issue arises on where the money came to pay your bills, including the payment to the same credit cards you advanced from?

As I said, I've been following your posts the entire time, so I didnt just "pull up and regurgitate them back to you" - and again to each their own - but I did take a bit of offense way back when when you first implied using mental illness and disability as a means to an end to justify your course, as I am disabled........

Ce la vie... carry on - and good luck to you in your case

why would you take offense if i am in fact mentally ill? if you did take offense, why not address it in that thread instead of this one? besides, who are you to say i am or am not mentally ill? or to imply that i am ONLY using it to justify a devious course of action. why couldnt it be true on both counts? why couldnt i use my mental illness as an explanation if it was legal to do so? and to that point, if this was all an elaborately planned out scheme, might i not have been setting up that defense from the onset? for someone who has been tracking my posts, you either dont seem to be getting the gist of them, or you are trying to read way to much into them because the running theme is in fact HOW am i going to (legally) justify my debt so that it all gets discharged!

so i appreciate your "concern" about how my situation might look suspicious, but seeing how ive already thought the same thing from pretty much my first post and have been seeking help in that respect from several angles on most of my posts, i dont see how you are contributing anything substantive to my situation - be it the bankruptcy or the judgment. you didnt offer anything of importance regarding the specifics of what the UST does, you arent really commiserating with me in my situation, but you did bring up a month old case about being offended, and you have made several assumptions about whether im lying, cheating, scheming, defrauding, or what have you. that about sums it up, right?

[Pandora]

....
anyway, i guess i dont even know what your overriding point is really in tracking all of my posts and regurgitating them back to me. are you trying to play amateur investigator? devils advocate? are you trying to help me? just passing time lol? as for the assets - im not hiding assets from a bk, i am presently trying to keep my assets from being taken in a judgment. if i did ask about it as related to bk, it was more of a hypothetical - trying to figure out how invasive of process it is (as in, do they come to my home to inventory all of my stuff including whats in my wallet) because i have no idea. sure id love to hide assets - if it were legal, and if i had any. im just trying to figure out what the LEGAL boundaries are along the way since this is all new to me. again, this would seem to be implied, but maybe not. well, enjoy reading, lol...

Nope - just curious as to how you thought the trustee or UST would look at it is all. From outside looking in, it appears from my point of view, that it may possibly be viewed as fraud and I was just wondering how you were planning on handling that aspect if it arose. Debt is debt is debt, doesnt matter what you bought, what matters is how you got there - was it planned out to defraud at the end? I think thats how the courts look at it in general. I dont understand how you can take 60K in withdraws from your cards, have them deposited into your bank account and pay your bills off of that money for 3-4 years (your words not mine) and then not expect to have it frowned upon is all. it wasnt your money used to pay your debts when you quit working - it was the banks money used as a deposit into your bank account. How do you answer that question to the trustee when the issue arises on where the money came to pay your bills, including the payment to the same credit cards you advanced from?

As I said, I've been following your posts the entire time, so I didnt just "pull up and regurgitate them back to you" - and again to each their own - but I did take a bit of offense way back when when you first implied using mental illness and disability as a means to an end to justify your course, as I am disabled........

Ce la vie... carry on - and good luck to you in your case

[tacomeat]

Tacomeat...

I've been following your posts

the points you raise precisely encapsulate MY own concerns for my situation because i, too, would think it seems fraudulent, lol. and maybe it is, by bk law standards, i dont know. well, maybe not fraudulent per se, but non-dischargeable. at the heart of my situation is the question about how suspicious all this stuff looks like when put together. i have no idea what anyone looks at in my financial history, if its line by line - item by item, how far they go back, how they go about piecing it all together and if it even matters if i wait a few more months. do the creditors talk to each other to see all of my similar activity across each account? does all of this stuff only come up IF one of my creditors objects? sure, NOW, i am trying to do do my best (whatever that might be) to save myself from having a huge un-discharged amount upon exiting bk. in other words, since i didnt have a master plan at work, i feel like i need to work backwards to explain away my situation or handle it in such a way that most benefits me so i can start with a clean slate. do you see the difference? i guess its implied that i want to do that within legal parameters (but of course benefiting me as best as possible).

but i dont even know if anywhere in the process i would need to explain what i did in using up my credit and why i did it. i made lots of smaller transactions because i thought it wouldnt raise any red flags to the cc's where they might cut my credit off (as did happen with one account that i got a few atm advances on and had security problems with make a couple $200 purchases in the same day- thus confirming my suspicions). i wasnt even thinking about bk at the time. furthermore - as it now pertains to bk, its not like i was blowing it on cars and boats, i was just using it for the basics before it got taken away. but is that better or not in their eyes? i dont know. had i filed bk, 6 months ago, i would think it would look more suspicious than filing now - because at that time i would still have had several thousands of dollars in charged items. but by the time i file (if i do) in a few months, it will have been a year and its all gonna be gone. (PS - im not saying ive lived a scrimper's life this past year, because after $80k + of debt, it didnt really seem to matter anymore, but any excess was just for comfort and distraction - lots of movies, eating out at chain restaurants, lots of late night junk food runs, lots of gas for driving around to all of my old haunts to lament, a little bit of gambling, probably more for lottery plays, etc). anyway, was it MY job to inform the credit card companies that my income drastically dropped so that they could then lower my balances? again, i dont know. its not like i dont want to pay it back, or wouldnt if i had or came into the money. i guess that was part of the point of using the credit - to give myself time for something to happen.

for the past several years, ive waffled between using credit and taking retirement money. but i made one bad financial decision after another. not because i didnt know any better - i am educated - but because i no longer cared because of my mental problems that totally overtook my life. so i finally decided to just use my credit up before it was cut off figuring the IRA would still be there as a backstop. is THAT fraudulent? i dont know. i was extended credit on factual information at the time. life happened in the interim and i had to use it. on the one hand, i figured (hoped) i wouldnt be alive by now to face the consequences, but alas, here i am typing away. on the other hand, i have every theoretical intention of paying it back - that is, if i happened to get some money. i guess if i had a big scheme in play, i probably should have kept making the minimum payments, right, to make it look less suspicious? but at THAT time, the debt had accumulated so much that it was going to take like $2000 each month JUST for the combined minimum payments so i just decided to stop paying all together. and actually it took me 1-2 months to stop because i didnt even know how to handle the calls i was getting (coupled with the reality that wow, i really was going to be that person that just quits making payments). so those last few months i think i made tiny payments . looking back, i dont even know why. they were threatening me with judgments and credit reporting and at the time, it scared me i guess, lol. which is funny considering where i am now a year later.....

so today - if i file, get AP-ed for all or some of this suspicious activity and end up settling for $10,000 or $20,000 being undischarged - i guess i dont see what the point would have been to file bk in the first place. i mean, i feel very weighted down by this debt and would like to get out from under it to get even the smallest of chances to start fresh. but heck, im so out of sorts emotionally that even that seems like it would take a minor miracle. but i KNOW i cant do it with all this debt burdening me down, which is why i would like to file and try for the fresh start (therefore, i am trying to maximize my efforts to do that).

anyway, i guess i dont even know what your overriding point is really in tracking all of my posts and regurgitating them back to me. are you trying to play amateur investigator? devils advocate? are you trying to help me? just passing time lol? as for the assets - im not hiding assets from a bk, i am presently trying to keep my assets from being taken in a judgment. if i did ask about it as related to bk, it was more of a hypothetical - trying to figure out how invasive of process it is (as in, do they come to my home to inventory all of my stuff including whats in my wallet) because i have no idea. sure id love to hide assets - if it were legal, and if i had any. im just trying to figure out what the LEGAL boundaries are along the way since this is all new to me. again, this would seem to be implied, but maybe not. well, enjoy reading, lol...

[Pandora]

questionable transfers to insiders? not sure what you mean there.

i think my charging activity last year might look a little suspect since i made a number of charges in the $100-$300 range over a 4 month period and across all of my credit cards to the tune of about $25,000. i dont know if i'd ever have to explain what they are specifically unless someone (trustee and/or creditor) actually objects but my reasoning was that since one of my cards at the time was closed without warning, i was afraid i might lose access to all of that credit - so i started using it and stocking up on things i would need (so instead of "living off my credit cards" as expenses were needed, i just went out and bought everything i might need for the next 6 months to a year to ensure the credit that was previously extended to me wasnt surreptitiously taken away - since by that point i was sort of counting on it to survive). so, i figure the only hope i have of getting most or all of those charges discharged is to put some time in between them and my bk filing. and i guess the other issue is that i basically stopped making my credit card payments about 2 months after my last charge. had i known of the adverse implications at the time, i probably would have at least made a few more payments - but again, i was just in survival mode trying to hang on to what little i had at the time.

and why would a judgment on my credit report be any worse than a bankruptcy? that doesnt make sense since a bk is going to ruin my credit for a good 5 years or more (not that it isnt already in the tank now).

Tacomeat...

I've been following your posts and I have a question regarding how you're planning this entire thing out if you dont mind answering - because its quite obvious you've been planning it for a while from your postings (or to me it reads that way). You stated you havent worked due to personal issues you have and posted earlier that you wanted to know if you could use a psych. eval as means of defense for an AP - (".... i should probably have been approved for soc sec disability if this has been such a burden for me these past 5 years. bottom line - doesnt seem like something you can just craft out of thin air at the last minute (not that i was trying to do that) and it would also be pretty expensive to do (my situation wouldnt warrant this...".)

and during this planning stage for BK, you went out and charged and/or advanced gift cards / pre-paid visa type of cards, etc that you are and have been living on - since you dont have a job, and stock piled whatever you needed, for this specific reasoning of filing BK and getting to your 1 year mark - in this thread: http://www.bkforum.com/showthread.php?t=57379

My question is how on earth do you not expect the trustee to look at your case questionably and not as fraudulent? I'm not accusing you of doing such, I'm merely asking you how YOU would not see how the trustee wouldnt view it that way. ?? You claim you have no money to your name other than a few thousand in your retirement/401/whatever it is - but are and have been living off of your cards you purchased a while ago for the very reason of claiming BK. Isnt that going to be viewed as fraudulent or do you not see it that way?

I guess I'm just not understanding how come you'd want to try to hide assets (i.e., "what if i have $1000 in my wallet for example, how can they find out i have that and then take part of it?") and lie if you're signing papers and raising your hand saying you promise to tell the truth and sign under oath.

I guess I just dont understand is all but then again - To each their own I guess...

[catleg]

This is what my Discover entry looks like on Experian, besides the account number. This account went all the way to charge off with them, the history is totally gone, recent balance either 0 or N/A. This is probably what you want, an utterly neutral tradeline. ( I changed all the data, by the way, what's left anyway ).

Status:
Petition for Chapter 13 Bankruptcy.


Date Opened:
12/2003
Date of Status:
08/2009
Reported Since:
N/A
Last Reported Date:
N/A


Type:
Revolving
Terms:
N/A
Monthly Payment:
$0
Responsibility:
Individual


Credit Limit:
$15,000
High Balance:
$16,274
Recent Balance:
N/A
Recent Payment:
N/A


Account History:
Filed Chapter 13 Bankruptcy on xxx xx, 2009

[ryan]

I've found that some creditors wipe the account history clean on your credit report when the account goes to IIB status , Discover for example, while most others to not.

I probably would have considered filing sooner if I had known that.

Whoa!...thats a useful piece of info actually, Catleg. I didn't know that. So what does it show then, for instance in the case of Discover?