Being Harassed....

[gonebroke4no]

Debt collector misbehavior is the norm these days rather than the exception. So is telemarketer misbehavior. The latest trickery seems to be exploiting the exemption to the DO NOT CALL law that allows companies you already do business with to call you. Telemarketers now piggyback on top of banks, credit card companies, and even supermarkets (they get your number from the form you filled out to get your "loyalty card"), calling "on behalf of" those companies with "special offers" to get around the DO NOT CALL lists.

That's why I recommend that everyone get a cheap phone number (like a MagicJack number), and give ONLY that number to banks, finance companies, supermarkets, department stores, and so forth. That becomes your number for anyone you really don't care to hear from, and it is the ONLY number that they will ever get.

Then never answer that number.

If you use the MagicJack, just unplug it (except when you want to make an outgoing call), and it will send any voice mails to you as email attachments. This is a great feature because it gives you an actual file of the recorded message that can easily be forwarded to, for example, your attorney, the FTC, or even the police if the message contains threats of bodily harm (yes, there are collections agents, though thankfully only a few, who will stoop that low).

I talk a little more about the MagicJack here.

Nowadays, since my BK was discharged and closed, the only calls I get from collectors are from those looking for friends and others who are running behind on their bills, and who apparently gave my number as a reference when they applied for the loans.

I have a policy about how to handle these calls. If the collector is honest and follows the law, then I am honest. I won't give them any information, but I will honestly and courteously tell them that I will not provide any information, and to never call me again. I understand that they are not allowed to tell me that they're bill collectors, but neither should they tell me that they're old college buddies or something along those lines.

If the collector lies, or if they violate the law by telling me that they're bill collectors and that my friend is behind in his/her payments, then I give them bogus information worthy of their misbehavior. I tell them that I don't have a current phone number, but that I do have the new address. That address will be a nonexistent RD box on Pray Road (a real road), in the hamlet of Lisbon, New York, which is up by the Canadian border in St. Lawrence County. It's not the end of the world, but it's within walking distance.

I got snowbound there many years ago when I made a wrong turn on the way back from Ogdensburg. I would have rather spent the night in the worst neighborhood in New York City. The locals remind me of the characters in the movie Deliverance. Seriously. I hope that one of the collection agencies engaging in unlawful practices will some day send an actual collector there and start asking the locals questions.

-Rich

Hey there RichM. I enjoyed your posting, and it all sounds like very good advice. However I think I can go one better in regards to the MagicJack (MJ). I tried MJ about 3 years ago (for 2 years). I guess I was one of those unlucky ones (I have read a lot of negative feedback on MJ by doing a Google search), as I myself had nothing but trouble with my MJ 90% of the time. I had nothing but complaints from the people that I was talking with in regards to the static in the line, choppiness in the call, and so many complaints that they could barely hear me. 50% of the time, I experienced all of those complaints on my end. So after a very poor and bad quality telephone call in November of 2009, I never used MJ again, as it was just too frustrating, since mine did not work as advertised in that infomercial, and I could not see spending $19.95 a year for the nightmare troubles I had with my MJ (since I even have high speed cable Internet service). Then another major pain I had with MJ was that every time I plugged the MJ in my usb port, it took about 5 minutes for it’s software to download and hook-up the phone . . . then it took even longer to connect with I got that “lucky upgrade”. GRRRRR!!! So after giving up on my MJ in 2009, I went back to trying to utilize my anytime minutes on my cellphone as best as I could, since I originally got my MJ for long distance telephone calls inside the continental US, so I could make long distance calls during prime time daytime hours.

Now with all of that being said, I just hope other MJ users have found that their MJ works perfectly like the infomercial. Yet I had an AWESOME stoke of luck to solve my long distance telephone service problem, when some online friends of mine recommend Google Voice (GV) to me around September 2010. All you need is a free Gmail email account, and you are in business! GV seems to offer the same features as MJ (a computer based telephone number, emails with voicemail attachments (good for legal purposes), plus a host of many other features and benefits that far exceed MJ), yet it is 100% free!!! It is suppose to be free to be able to call all of the US and Canada, but I have never tried it out in regards to calling anyone in Alaska or Hawaii or Canada, but I have used it to call several states since about September of 2010, ALL were GREAT quality calls, and I have never been charged for any call. Plus GV give you unlimited free texting. Best of all, I and whoever I am talking with have a good and quality connections with GV 100% of the time! However there is a minimal charge for calls outside of the US and Canada. I will not list all of the other great features and benefits of GV (for the sake of not having to type so much, but anyone can read about the GV features and benefits in their entirety by doing a Google search under “Google Voice features”. Yet one feature that GV gives you is, to be able to set up a separate voicemail for any phone number that calls your GV number to either set up a customized voicemail just for that phone number calling your GV number or use the system voicemail greeting, plus it gives you the option to use their (GV) canned version of a “were sorry, the phone number you are trying to reach is no longer in service” message for “any” phone number calling your GV number (that you designate to get that message). COOL eh?

Yet I have seen other postings of people posting their joys of using GV to try to get rid of creditors and collectors, however the problem seems to be to get the creditors and collectors to use the GV number “only” and to stop them from using any other number they have on file for you. I know that you can often go online to change your contact information with a creditor, however I think it is too late to do this once an account becomes past due, as I see that creditors will call you on “all” the telephone numbers they have on file for you . . . especially on any telephone number they have in your original credit file. Plus I do not think there is any way to go back to change any credit reference information give to open a credit account (i.e. a relative or friends name and telephone number), so therefore they can use that reference information to call those relatives and or friends to try to find you. So I can easily see that if you get a creditor or collector to call your GV number (and you never call them back), then they will still call any other number they have on file for you, along with contacting your referenced family and friends telephone numbers to try to find you. So this is why I did not bother with trying to direct my creditors and collectors to my GV number, since it seems too late to do this since I am already in default.

One other neat thing about GV, it only takes a few minutes to set up the account, download the software, and get a GV phone number . . . all 100% free. Though you have an option to get a headset to use GV, yet I did not want that option. So I set my GV phone to ring on my landline phone, yet I set my GV to go to GV voicemail after 4 rings. Yet I set my my landline phone to ring 6 times before it goes to my landline voicemail. So it make it easy to keep my voicemail separate from the 2 separate phone numbers using just one telephone. Yet when a call comes in and I look at my caller ID, I have no way of telling if the call is coming in via the GV number or the landline number (if I do not recognized the caller ID number), yet my 2 voicemails will sort it out. Plus I get my GV calls on my landline phone even if my computer is off (whereas with MJ, your computer has to be on with your MJ plugged-in in order for your phone to ring, otherwise it goes to MJ voicemail).

[RichM]

Hey there RichM. I enjoyed your posting, and it all sounds like very good advice. However I think I can go one better in regards to the MagicJack (MJ). I tried MJ about 3 years ago (for 2 years). I guess I was one of those unlucky ones (I have read a lot of negative feedback on MJ by doing a Google search), as I myself had nothing but trouble with my MJ 90% of the time. I had nothing but complaints from the people that I was talking with in regards to the static in the line, choppiness in the call, and so many complaints that they could barely hear me. 50% of the time, I experienced all of those complaints on my end. So after a very poor and bad quality telephone call in November of 2009, I never used MJ again, as it was just too frustrating, since mine did not work as advertised in that infomercial, and I could not see spending $19.95 a year for the nightmare troubles I had with my MJ (since I even have high speed cable Internet service). Then another major pain I had with MJ was that every time I plugged the MJ in my usb port, it took about 5 minutes for it’s software to download and hook-up the phone . . . then it took even longer to connect with I got that “lucky upgrade”. GRRRRR!!! So after giving up on my MJ in 2009, I went back to trying to utilize my anytime minutes on my cellphone as best as I could, since I originally got my MJ for long distance telephone calls inside the continental US, so I could make long distance calls during prime time daytime hours.

Now with all of that being said, I just hope other MJ users have found that their MJ works perfectly like the infomercial. Yet I had an AWESOME stoke of luck to solve my long distance telephone service problem, when some online friends of mine recommend Google Voice (GV) to me around September 2010. All you need is a free Gmail email account, and you are in business! GV seems to offer the same features as MJ (a computer based telephone number, emails with voicemail attachments (good for legal purposes), plus a host of many other features and benefits that far exceed MJ), yet it is 100% free!!! It is suppose to be free to be able to call all of the US and Canada, but I have never tried it out in regards to calling anyone in Alaska or Hawaii or Canada, but I have used it to call several states since about September of 2010, ALL were GREAT quality calls, and I have never been charged for any call. Plus GV give you unlimited free texting. Best of all, I and whoever I am talking with have a good and quality connections with GV 100% of the time! However there is a minimal charge for calls outside of the US and Canada. I will not list all of the other great features and benefits of GV (for the sake of not having to type so much, but anyone can read about the GV features and benefits in their entirety by doing a Google search under “Google Voice features”. Yet one feature that GV gives you is, to be able to set up a separate voicemail for any phone number that calls your GV number to either set up a customized voicemail just for that phone number calling your GV number or use the system voicemail greeting, plus it gives you the option to use their (GV) canned version of a “were sorry, the phone number you are trying to reach is no longer in service” message for “any” phone number calling your GV number (that you designate to get that message). COOL eh?

Yet I have seen other postings of people posting their joys of using GV to try to get rid of creditors and collectors, however the problem seems to be to get the creditors and collectors to use the GV number “only” and to stop them from using any other number they have on file for you. I know that you can often go online to change your contact information with a creditor, however I think it is too late to do this once an account becomes past due, as I see that creditors will call you on “all” the telephone numbers they have on file for you . . . especially on any telephone number they have in your original credit file. Plus I do not think there is any way to go back to change any credit reference information give to open a credit account (i.e. a relative or friends name and telephone number), so therefore they can use that reference information to call those relatives and or friends to try to find you. So I can easily see that if you get a creditor or collector to call your GV number (and you never call them back), then they will still call any other number they have on file for you, along with contacting your referenced family and friends telephone numbers to try to find you. So this is why I did not bother with trying to direct my creditors and collectors to my GV number, since it seems too late to do this since I am already in default.

One other neat thing about GV, it only takes a few minutes to set up the account, download the software, and get a GV phone number . . . all 100% free. Though you have an option to get a headset to use GV, yet I did not want that option. So I set my GV phone to ring on my landline phone, yet I set my GV to go to GV voicemail after 4 rings. Yet I set my my landline phone to ring 6 times before it goes to my landline voicemail. So it make it easy to keep my voicemail separate from the 2 separate phone numbers using just one telephone. Yet when a call comes in and I look at my caller ID, I have no way of telling if the call is coming in via the GV number or the landline number (if I do not recognized the caller ID number), yet my 2 voicemails will sort it out. Plus I get my GV calls on my landline phone even if my computer is off (whereas with MJ, your computer has to be on with your MJ plugged-in in order for your phone to ring, otherwise it goes to MJ voicemail).

Nice and useful post.

The MagicJack actually works pretty well for me, but for my purposes, I really don't care about the quality of the connection. And yes, Google Voice is a very good service.

As for MJ, remember that I only give that number to entities that I never want to hear from, anyway; and I only use it to call those entities (so that's the number that shows up on the caller ID), not anyone else. Specifically, the MJ number is the only number that I give to banks (or anyone remotely connected to a financial institution), supermarkets, department stores, government agencies (except those for whom I'm a contractor), and anyone else I have no desire to talk to. Since I never answer that line and don't want to hear from those people, anyway, I really don't care if the connection quality sucks.

As for getting collectors and other pains in the ass to call only a certain number, that's tougher. Other than canceling and changing the other numbers -- and even that's not foolproof -- I don't know any way to do it. What I did was cancel the landline altogether, then I got a prepaid cell phone under a bogus name (actually, a nickname) and the cell provider's address. With unlimited prepaid cell service, the landline seemed a waste of money, anyway.

So basically, my family, my best clients, and my closest friends have my cell number; and everyone else has the MJ number.

That's not counting my business lines, which I also never give to banks, etc. I put the MJ number down as both my home number and my employer's number, which is perfectly true because I am self-employed. If I am asked by a bank, store, etc. "Is there any other number we can reach you at?" the answer is, simply, "No."

I should mention at this point that my BK has been discharged and closed. I keep the above arrangement because it's become clear to me that the marketing industry will mine any and all available data, looking for new and creative ways to try to sell shit. Even with all of my numbers on the DO NOT CALL list, I was still getting swamped with calls from telemarketers -- and there was nothing I could do as long as they were piggybacking on some company I'd done business with in the past 18 months. There's a loophole in the law that allows them to call. So now they all get the MJ number.

I also am registered to vote as an independent, so ALL the candidates wind up calling me every election -- and frankly, I don't care to talk to any of them. So for my voter registration and any other government purpose (driver's license, registration, taxes, etc.), the only number on file is the MJ number.

And then there are the endless "surveys," which I also can't be bothered with.

So in summary, having a "special" number for everyone except family and my closest friends, and never answering that number, is about protecting my privacy and preserving my sanity, not dodging bill collectors. The BK took care of that problem for me.

-Rich

[Bell30656]

Just remember if you avoid the calls of the collector, they can and will start calling your work number, your neighbors and all the people in the phone book that have the same last name as you in attempts to locate you. There are lots of techniques for avoiding the calls but that just starts other issues. Just because they dismissed the first civil case, that doesn't mean that they cannot refile and sue you again. It can and does happen all the time. There are many times the parties work out courthouse steps deals and then wind up refiling. There are times the creditor doesn't have the ducks in a row, dismiss and refile.

Simply, take the phone call, verify that you are indeed the party they are seeking but then tell them that you are unwilling to discuss financial matters over the telephone with them. No matter what they say, YOU keep control of yourself and do not let them goad you into arguing. Simply again tell them that you will not discuss financial matters over the telephone and bid them a good day. Collection agents are geared up and ready for a fight. Nothing upsets them more than someone that just won't buy the bait.

On the positive side, if you are taking their calls at home, they cannot attempt calls to locate as they have reached you. If they actually file a civil suit against you simply answer it... You can drag them out until you are ready to file bankruptcy.

As for "harassment", that is what they do. Look at it through their eyes... You took their money and now for whatever reason won't pay them back. They will say anything to get you to pay that money back. If they did any less the owners or stockholders of the company would scream.

[gonebroke4no]

Nice and useful post.

The MagicJack actually works pretty well for me, but for my purposes, I really don't care about the quality of the connection. And yes, Google Voice is a very good service.

As for MJ, remember that I only give that number to entities that I never want to hear from, anyway; and I only use it to call those entities (so that's the number that shows up on the caller ID), not anyone else. Specifically, the MJ number is the only number that I give to banks (or anyone remotely connected to a financial institution), supermarkets, department stores, government agencies (except those for whom I'm a contractor), and anyone else I have no desire to talk to. Since I never answer that line and don't want to hear from those people, anyway, I really don't care if the connection quality sucks.

As for getting collectors and other pains in the ass to call only a certain number, that's tougher. Other than canceling and changing the other numbers -- and even that's not foolproof -- I don't know any way to do it. What I did was cancel the landline altogether, then I got a prepaid cell phone under a bogus name (actually, a nickname) and the cell provider's address. With unlimited prepaid cell service, the landline seemed a waste of money, anyway.

So basically, my family, my best clients, and my closest friends have my cell number; and everyone else has the MJ number.

That's not counting my business lines, which I also never give to banks, etc. I put the MJ number down as both my home number and my employer's number, which is perfectly true because I am self-employed. If I am asked by a bank, store, etc. "Is there any other number we can reach you at?" the answer is, simply, "No."

I should mention at this point that my BK has been discharged and closed. I keep the above arrangement because it's become clear to me that the marketing industry will mine any and all available data, looking for new and creative ways to try to sell shit. Even with all of my numbers on the DO NOT CALL list, I was still getting swamped with calls from telemarketers -- and there was nothing I could do as long as they were piggybacking on some company I'd done business with in the past 18 months. There's a loophole in the law that allows them to call. So now they all get the MJ number.

I also am registered to vote as an independent, so ALL the candidates wind up calling me every election -- and frankly, I don't care to talk to any of them. So for my voter registration and any other government purpose (driver's license, registration, taxes, etc.), the only number on file is the MJ number.

And then there are the endless "surveys," which I also can't be bothered with.

So in summary, having a "special" number for everyone except family and my closest friends, and never answering that number, is about protecting my privacy and preserving my sanity, not dodging bill collectors. The BK took care of that problem for me.

-Rich

Rich,

Thank you for the updates, and thank you for sharing such useful information and elaborating as to how you get the most use out of your Magic Jack. As always, it is much appreciated. Thanks so very much.

I am glad your MJ works well for you, and that you have also had good luck with Google Voice. That is a great idea to give out the MJ number to those that you do not care about hearing from, as that is how I am utilizing my GV now. Yet from reading your posting, it gives me many-many-many more ways to get more mileage out of the GV number. SMILE!!! However since I have had my landline and the same phone number for over 30 years, it would be hard to give it up and deal with trying to give out a new number to all of my family and friends that have always used that same number for over 30 years. LOL!!!

Bottom line, I LOVE your two phone number idea. I will consider giving up my landline number and just using my cellphone for my family and friends (since they are the ONLY people that have it anyway), as I made it a point to never give my cellphone out to any business or company that I am doing business with, when I got my cellphone back in 2001. So the only company that has my cellphone number, is my cellphone provide company. LOL!!! Though I have been in default with several companies for almost 6 months now I guess, it has been nice that none of them know my cellphone number and nor have I received any calls on my cellphone from any creditor or collector.

[gonebroke4no]

Just remember if you avoid the calls of the collector, they can and will start calling your work number, your neighbors and all the people in the phone book that have the same last name as you in attempts to locate you. There are lots of techniques for avoiding the calls but that just starts other issues. Just because they dismissed the first civil case, that doesn't mean that they cannot refile and sue you again. It can and does happen all the time. There are many times the parties work out courthouse steps deals and then wind up refiling. There are times the creditor doesn't have the ducks in a row, dismiss and refile.

Simply, take the phone call, verify that you are indeed the party they are seeking but then tell them that you are unwilling to discuss financial matters over the telephone with them. No matter what they say, YOU keep control of yourself and do not let them goad you into arguing. Simply again tell them that you will not discuss financial matters over the telephone and bid them a good day. Collection agents are geared up and ready for a fight. Nothing upsets them more than someone that just won't buy the bait.

On the positive side, if you are taking their calls at home, they cannot attempt calls to locate as they have reached you. If they actually file a civil suit against you simply answer it... You can drag them out until you are ready to file bankruptcy.

As for "harassment", that is what they do. Look at it through their eyes... You took their money and now for whatever reason won't pay them back. They will say anything to get you to pay that money back. If they did any less the owners or stockholders of the company would scream.

Thank you Belle30656. Oh for sure, I am very aware to the new troubles that can happen by avoiding calls of the collectors. I am still working on how to best address this problem. Because I have often read as long as I probably at least answer the phone for each creditor (to let them know that they have reached the correct person and the correct phone number) at least once a week, then the collectors have no need to start contacting my family, friends, and neighbors to try to locate me. As I know that is the main thing when it comes to collectors, as long as they can locate me, then I have to deal with the calls, the letters, and eventually the summons . . . yet at least it pulls the plug on the collectors from bothering my family, friends, and neighbors.

Since I had been self employed for over 8 years, yet knowing that collectors call the debtors work/employer, I called my old work number and found out that it has been changed, and the caller has to call another number to get the phone menu employee directory. Yet since I have not worked at that company for over 8 years, I would not be in that directory. So I was glad to learn this and see this pretty much as a dead end for creditors, unless they write or physically go to the company to seek whatever information that they might find useful to contact me. Yet since the creditors know where I live, I can not see them spending time at my old employer trying to contact me based on any information they might could get from my old employer.

Yet thank you very much for your suggestions, as I will use them when I get to the point to talk with the creditors over the phone, because you are 100% right, by not talking with them only starts other issues. Yet since I have never talked with them “ever” since I have been in default, I do have a feeling that the summons will be coming in the upcoming weeks though. So I think I have waited too long on this, and they are ready to turn up the heat via the summons.

Bottomline Bell30656, everything you have stated makes 100% perfect and great sense. Thanks so very much for your advice, suggestions, and help. It is so very much appreciated.

[Freddy03]

Just remember if you avoid the calls of the collector, they can and will start calling your work number, your neighbors and all the people in the phone book that have the same last name as you in attempts to locate you. There are lots of techniques for avoiding the calls but that just starts other issues. Just because they dismissed the first civil case, that doesn't mean that they cannot refile and sue you again. It can and does happen all the time. There are many times the parties work out courthouse steps deals and then wind up refiling. There are times the creditor doesn't have the ducks in a row, dismiss and refile.

Simply, take the phone call, verify that you are indeed the party they are seeking but then tell them that you are unwilling to discuss financial matters over the telephone with them. No matter what they say, YOU keep control of yourself and do not let them goad you into arguing. Simply again tell them that you will not discuss financial matters over the telephone and bid them a good day. Collection agents are geared up and ready for a fight. Nothing upsets them more than someone that just won't buy the bait.

On the positive side, if you are taking their calls at home, they cannot attempt calls to locate as they have reached you. If they actually file a civil suit against you simply answer it... You can drag them out until you are ready to file bankruptcy.

As for "harassment", that is what they do. Look at it through their eyes... You took their money and now for whatever reason won't pay them back. They will say anything to get you to pay that money back. If they did any less the owners or stockholders of the company would scream.

I'm pretty sure they won't file again. The amount isn't that high and they were chewed out by the mediator because the summons amount was a lot MORE than what they came to mediation with. The total should have been going up not down (due to interest).

The problem is that I did answer the phone, I did talk to them (more than once). It just seems they don't keep very good phone records (shocker) so they keep calling me.

They haven't called back so that's a plus.

[gonebroke4no]

Thanks Freddy03. This is good to know.