Home Depot, BestBuy and Musician's Friend CC's...

[CPO]

Looking for experiences with these CC's, when filing BK7.

BestBuy and Muscian's Friend are HSBC accounts, and I believe that Home Depot is Citicard.

Do they claim a security interest? Want their stuff back? Etc.

(If they want the property back, there is no problem. It's here and available).

Looking to see if they might give me trouble with creditor secured claims.

At ther time of filing, I would have not paid any of them for 5 months.

Last charge on Home Depot was in June of 2006 for $39.11, Muscian's Friend was May of 2006 for $65.35 and BestBuy was December 2006 for $378.00...

Thanks for the help.

CPO

[freshstart2006]

Those cards should be unsecured, so they cannot take back what you purchased with them.

[HHM]

BestBuy actually is a secured card, as are most "store" card where big ticket items are sold (i.e. Sears, etc), not sure about Musician's Friend, and Home Depot may or may not be.

If you search this forum for Best Buy, you will see all kinds of posts about Best Buy, and about debtors getting requests for reaffirmations or they will repo the property. But it is universally an empty threat.

So even though many of these cards are "legally" secured debt, even the creditors treat them like unsecured because there is no value in it for them to repo the underlying property.

On a side note, timing can be an issue, if you go out and buy a $3000 plasma TV on a Best Buy credit card and file BK 3 months later, they are gonna want it back or demand a reaffirmation. In that scenario, the threat won't be empty.

[freshstart2006]

Yes, that is true. I forgot about that, any recent big purchases could be contested.

I had a Best Buy card that I included in my bk. I had purchased a refrigerator and washer/dryer. But it was a year before filing. I had no problems with it.

[CPO]

That's great info HHM. The property I purchased (Dec 2006) via BestBuy was the last time I used any of the cards, and really, if they put up a stink I think I'd just hand the stuff over to them to get them to go away. I would rather just get it done then fight over it.

I did purchase a tv for $1000.00 back in early July 2006. Do you think this would be an issue?

I will file in early May 2007.

How would I determine whether or not I would list these creditors on Schedule D for secured creditors and what would I do with the Statment of Intent? List them and the property as secured assets and surrender them?

If a creditor does file a claim, does this delay the general time-line in completing your petition(assuming you act immediately and deliver property to the Trustee)...does the process proceed without delay?

And, when they do threaten with a reaffirm or repo, at what point does it become a non-issue? After the 30 days...post creditors meeting?

Thanks again.

CPO

[CPO]

I guess one could list them as unsecured and make them contest it?

Or, would that be considered fraud on the petitioners part?

I'm just stuck on whether they are considered secured or not and where they fit on the forms and in my "plan."

Thanks again for your info and patience with my ignorance.

CPO

[bige1030]

My attorney listed my Best Buy card as unsecured on my petition, even though he knew it was technically secured. Basically, it's because they weren't going to repossess a CD changer that I had been paying on for a year.

EDIT: Bass & Ass. actually *do* want a redemption or surrender. They sent a letter to my attorney dated 12/19/06 that my attorney's office forwarded to me through the mail postmarked 2/22/07, so I hadn't heard from them until now. I told my attorney's paralegal to tell them that I'll surrender the collateral, and they should make arrangements with me for the return of it. They can have it. Back in 05 I traded my car for one that has a CD player, so I could care less about the changer. They can have it.

[SamanthaJones]

Interesting fact about secured vs unsecured purchases:

If you buy a washing machine using a general card (VISA, for example), the washing machine is an unsecured item, since the VISA is a generalized unsecured line of credit. However- if you buy a washing machine at, say, 'Washing Machines R Us', using a 'Washing Machines R Us' instore credit card- then the washing machine is secured. VISA will not be able to repossess your washing machine, but 'Washing Machines R Us' can, since the purcahse was made on a card specifically meant for the washing machine store.

[SinkingFast]

Our attny listed our Sears card as Unsecured. Most of it was as it was a Sears Gold MC. But, the last purchase made on that card was for new kitchen appliances to the tune of about $2K 13 months before we filed. Part of our "fix it up" on the house we sold.

I mentioned the appliances to our attny. He said, "If they call us about it, we'll tell them where to get the appliances." Then I told the attny the appliances were in the house we sold. Our attny said, "Oh! We'll tell them you are no longer in possession of the items."

That was it.

If you buy a washing machine using a general card (VISA, for example), the washing machine is an unsecured item, since the VISA is a generalized unsecured line of credit. However- if you buy a washing machine at, say, 'Washing Machines R Us', using a 'Washing Machines R Us' instore credit card- then the washing machine is secured. VISA will not be able to repossess your washing machine, but 'Washing Machines R Us' can, since the purcahse was made on a card specifically meant for the washing machine store.

Samantha,............

You are right that many "Store" cards have a purchase money security interest clause for items bought in the stores.

If you buy from some little Mom and Pop shop, Mom and Pop will most likely hound you to the grave to get the washing machine or the money back. One washing machine could be a sizeable chunk of the profit from their bottom line in a given month.

Best Buy, Sears, Home Depot won't. Your washing machine is like a gnat's eyelash on the butt of an elephant to them. They'll sell your anonymous debt to someone like Bass and Associates for pennies on the dollar. Then Bass and Associates will contact you sometime after your BK is Discharged wanting YOU to tell them what merchandise you purchased, when, and how much you paid. Bass and Associates will also want you to pay them or surrender the goods to them.

[HHM]

As has already been mentioned, I would still list these cards as unsecured debt and force the creditor to challenge otherwise.

[CPO]

Thanks for all the good info. I'll just list them as unsecured and let them "claim" as they wish.

If they want the property back, so be it.

Thanks again folks,

CPO