1000 charged within 90 days Q, I do it every month

[dimmwatt]

I was worried about passing the charging $1000 within 90 days test to avoid being slapped with a fraud charge. I use 1 of my charge cards as anybody else would their ATM for the airline miles . I charge a thousand or more a month, mostly on nesesities and do my best to match what I spent with that much in payment. I do carry a small balance of around 1500 in addition to the 1000 revolving.

Is this a problem?

I have the cash to pay that one off. Should I do that and not include it as a debt?

If I do decide to pay it off, will that be seen as ability to pay by the trustee and be forced into a 13? My cash assets (in checking) will show the hit, so I assume It wont.

Side Q, Anybody know if will I loose my airline miles when I file BK if I include this debt?

[Bandit]

If I remember, if you pay 1000 (600 or more to one place) they might go & collect it to divide between the other creditors, that wont really affect you. I dont know for sure but I don't see how something you charge & pay off every month would be fraud. So, if it did not get paid it would be because of BK, not because you wanted to do fraud. I am pretty sure they would have to prove that 1000 as fraud. At the most I would think the creditor would object for some odd reason & you just pay it, but not as in fraud- only because that is something you spend every month anyway. If it was 1000 that you just did out of the blue, then that would be different. I could be wrong but that seems logical to me right now.
OTH- I don't really see what there is to gain by not paying it because you will be paying it as an expense any way. I am kind of confused about that part.

If you mean pay the entire 1000 + 1500 then I would not do that.

Or, I might just pay my attorney with that money because like you said they will see it in the checking account & where it went. Your 1,000 a month flying expense is not going to change anyway that is if it is still your job. (?)

If that 1000 a month is an expense that you do every month, then I don't see how it alone would go into 13, because that will be spent every month even after the BK. I mean, it is not like the airlines are going to allow you to purchase tickets at the chapter 13 percentage/price of what you owe. Yes or no?

Side Q, Anybody know if will I loose my airline miles when I file BK if I include this debt?

That is a good question. Are miles with airlines seen as an asset? If they are, then I would use them if I could.

I do not know the answer to all the questions going full circle. I know my title says "guru" & I am still amazed at how much I learned from the forum in such a short amount of time.
It is not advice or anything, Just thinking how I would try to work it out for myself. I kind of feel a soothing relief trying to work out all these little puzzles.
BUT! nevertheless it is $1000, so I would ask my attorney to be on the safe side.

Anyone else wanna tackle this one? Please do & feel free to correct my mistakes.

[demismom]

You will probably lose it, yes. I had an AMEX and they would have canceled my card even though it had a zero balance and was not included in the bankruptcy. I called to find out because it had a $145 annual fee and I wasn't about to pay that, only to have the card canceled.

[dimmwatt]

Bandit, Thanks for the reply. It seems to apply even though I think you slightly mis understood me. I re read my post and I can understand why.

I dont spend 1k a month on air travel I spend 1K a month on necesities, but I use that card to gain miles.

A bit more backround may help you answer my Q I have no problem paying my CC's, never did. (kind of, never missed a payment, but slowly draininh my savings) I am preparing for the wrath of the impending foreclosure. They will want their 100K+ soon that will show up as a judgement after its auctioned. I expect it to sell for at least 100K less than the leins

[Bandit]

Bandit, Thanks for the reply. It seems to apply even though I think you slightly mis understood me. I re read my post and I can understand why.

I dont spend 1k a month on air travel I spend 1K a month on necesities, but I use that card to gain miles.

I see what you mean. Those types of expenses are not viewed as fraud even if it did not get paid. I am just as curious as you are now on wether or not you still get to keep the miles. I would think all the miles you would get to keep because you earned them, unless that credit card company decided to take them due to the BK, but necessarily just because you did not make the payment for that month. This is hard to know for sure and more difficult because who can you ask and actually be able to ask without them wondering why you ask. Maybe some banks let the people keep the miles and others do not. (?)
Do you have any vacation time coming up? or, Someone you need to visit that you have not visited for a long time and they live far away? A weekend getaway for the holidays?
If you have time, it is just something to consider then you wont have to wonder about losing them, especially if you have a lot of miles. You might just need a trip before this is all over. I have one planned in a couple of months.

A bit more backround may help you answer my Q I have no problem paying my CC's, never did. (kind of, never missed a payment, but slowly draininh my savings)

We are exactly the same here. Never missed, never late- no problems. I could see the downward spiral ahead of time just like you are...

I am preparing for the wrath of the impending foreclosure. They will want their 100K+ soon that will show up as a judgement after its auctioned. I expect it to sell for at least 100K less than the leins

...and started preparing for it the best way I could just as you are.

Yours is due to foreclosure coming and mine will be due to medical bills of which several have been charged. So far I have worked it out but I know I can't keep doing this forever. Like, by March I will be doomed....and knocking on attorneys doors. "Hello, I have this problem..." with this long sob story attached.

They are going to see the loss you encounter and understand with no problems. It would be awesome if it can be timed so that there are no judgments. I am not sure if it is possible but it would work better for you, the credit rating, fewer hassles & all.

What I have noticed is the way we always did things always worked and always worked to our benefit (like getting the miles, using our cards wisely.) Then all of the sudden we realize we have to start doing something different in the interim. Not because what we did was bad or wrong, but because circumstances changed. I never thought I would see the day that, to a degree, my income would work against me.

[Boscoe]

Dimwatt - The answer is yes, the card will most likely be cancelled soon after you file the bk, and yes, you will definitely lose any accrued airline miles once this happens.

I had a Sony Chase and a World points B of A cards, both of which I had alot of points with. I went to their rewards center, and picked up a Sony portable DVD player and some rental certificates when I knew the end was coming.

Of course, both Chase and BofA were included in the BK, so I would have lost my points if I did not redeem them before.

So, I would STRONGLY advise you to, assuming you have enough miles, to book an air trip or at least redeem them in some way so the reward is yours. Because you will lose the miles.

Regarding the credit card usage itself, you unfortunately will need to stop using this card until after you are discharged. It is a tough thing to get used to, as I was the same as you and never used debit cards, only my credit cards to obtain air miles, points, rebates, etc. But you will find that if you use a debit card with a major bank, like B of A, their debit card rewards program is not too bad either.