My recent experience with Legal Aid...

[FreshLikeADaisy]

Hmmm, that's a thought. But I may not even need that (though it would be nice). Since PACER access is free at the courthouse, I have been going down there and just reading case after case, which has helped me tremendously in terms of what to include and what not to include. There was a post on this forum (can't remember when or by whom) by someone who looked up bk notices in their local paper and then went and studied the cases in order to prepare for bk pro se; whoever that was, thanks! You inspired me.

I should add that before I went, I did some informal research to see which local attorneys were bankruptcy mills and which were actually involved in the practice of law (writing articles, participating in BK blogs, etc) so when I got on PACER, I looked up examples of both. And oh my, there was such a difference: the number of cases dismissed for stupid stuff -- uncured filing deficiency, for example -- was a lot higher for the bk mills than for the lawyers I had informally pegged as good.

The attorneys I had pegged as being competent were just not having cases dismissed at all: in the last eight months or so, there was one case dismissed where a Chapter 13 had been paying regularly but then failed to make payments or convert the bk, and another where a debtor had filed taxes for 04 and 05, but not 06, and was not able to get that straightened out to the trustee's satisfaction within the time available. I figured that was understandable. But when I looked at the lawyers I had pegged as being bk mills, there was *case* after *case* of unconverted Chapter 13 dismissed for failure to make payments, even several where not even the first payment was made, as though the attorney had no idea what their clients were actually able to pay, or had not asked even the most cursory questions of their clients. (Oh yeah, you get to see what the attorneys charge, too: they all have to file the Disclosure of Compensation.)

Another difference is that the more competent attorneys tended to be proactive and where there was any question of a specific point, they included a statement or an affidavit with their filing that, although not required by law, would definitely address any questions the trustee had on that point. I saw "Statement of No Interest", "Affidavit of Unemployment" and the like here and there with the competent attorneys, but nothing like it in the bk mills. Even a "Certificate of Mailing" filed at the courthouse when routine items were sent from the attorney to the trustee, in order to get their compliance on the record.

I was able to do this because I was at the courthouse and PACER access was free (God only knows how much I'd owe right now if I'd tried it at home) but it has been *invaluable*. You would not believe the differences in filing between a bk mill and a competent bk attorney unless you saw a bunch of them side by side, like I did: unbelievable.

I think I might have gotten off track here, sorry. Thanks for the suggestion -- I'll see what I can find!

[rrockinggramma]

Perhaps you live near a college with a law school? I would try there for help from students. Call their law academic office and see if a senior needs some practice with his internship?

[FreshLikeADaisy]

Wow... y'all are actually making me feel *good* about being dissed by Legal Aid. They may not have helped me, but they didn't just abandon me either. At least they let me know quickly, eh? I just wish they they would have put their criteria out front. (My income is zero, so I wasn't disqualified for that.)

Lrprn is right; I seem to remember hearing elsewhere that client abandonment is cause for disciplinary action by the Bar, which is not something that any attorney -- no matter how rich or well-connected -- can blow off. Which is why, if GF can file a complaint, she won't just be helping herself, she'll be helping the others getting (or going to be getting) shafted by this attorney as well. I wish her good luck!

[SinkingFast]

TY, Lrprn! I will pass that link onto her.

I tried to get GF to pick a different attny to begin with. I'd looked the attny up on PACER and she's a BK Mill. Files 15 to 20 cases every month.

Both GF and STBX had seen this attny before they split, considering filing a Joint Ch 13. Then STBX had kicked GF out of the marital home. She didn't take any documentation with her. No tax records. No SSN card. Nothing.

GF thought she was a straight forward, No Asset Ch 7. So GF felt it was just simpler to go with this attny because the attny already had everything on file from the previous visit.

MISTAKE!!

[lrprn]

GF filed. The Trustee is after her post petition divorce settlement. And GF's attny is now suddenly AWOL.

Sounds like it's time to leave a message with the receptionist that if the attorney doesn't contact your GF in the next 48 business hours, she will contact the state office that handles lawyer misconduct issues and lodge a complaint against this lawyer for abandonment.

Here's the website that lists every state's contact point for reporting lawyer misconduct in the practice of law - http://www.nbtanet.org/public/discipline/index.shtml . Please send it on your GF and encourage her to use it.

[SinkingFast]

I have a friend who's attny has dropped the ball on her case.

GF filed. The Trustee is after her post petition divorce settlement. And GF's attny is now suddenly AWOL.

GF has called the office and left messages. No returned phone calls. GF has emailed her attny direct. I gave her the attny's email address that I found on PACER. GF even tried to schedule a face to face meeting. Receptionist said the attny is "too busy" for a meeting.

So GF is in limbo as far as representation goes. She borrowed the money to file to begin with from her mother and she doesn't have money to get another attny.

GF and I talked about her possibly contacting Legal Aid. I told her she could try, but they might not be able to help her. Many folks here have reported getting no assistance from Legal Aid for BK.

GF went to Legal Aid. She qualifies based on income. But her Legal Aid has no qualified attnys available. Sorry, is what they said.

[FreshLikeADaisy]

Boy, I wish I'd known beforehand...

On Monday of this week, November 19, I went down to the Legal Aid office here in Jacksonville, FL to see if I could get any help or even just a low-cost referral. I showed up an hour and a half before opening, waited in line, filled out the forms, met with an intern (to whom I told my sad story) and... that was it. No advice, no referral, no names of anyone that could possibly help, nothing. We'll get back to you, they said.

Well, they got back to me. Yesterday, I received a letter from them stating that unless I meet one of six conditions as listed in the letter, they will be unable to help with any bankruptcy related matter. The six conditions (and I am quoting directly from the letter) were listed as:

1. Stopping foreclosure of debtor's homestead
2. Stopping a wage or bank account garnishment where debtor is not entitled to any exemptions under Florida or federal law to completely exempt wages from garnishment
3. Helping a debtor reinstate a driver's license by discharging a subrogation judgement
4. Helping a debtor qualify for government subsidized housing
5. Discharging federal income taxes that meet the three tests of dischargeability in order to stop a wage garnishment by the IRS
6. Helping the debtor qualify for some other governmental license, benefit, or Habijax housing assistance

If I find that my situation ever changes and one of the six circumstances listed above "develops" I am welcome to contact them immediately and they will "reevaluate [my] application". Gee thanks, fellas.

I kind of suspected that it would be a dead end just because of various things I'd heard about it being hell to reach them by phone or in person, and then they wouldn't help unless you're in foreclosure (turns out to be true, that one) but even so, I have to admit to being kind of pi**ed about it: if they had simply put this information on their website it would have saved me hours of wasted time and a lot of gas and hassle. But in case anyone else is thinking about going to an area Legal Aid in Florida for bankruptcy help, maybe this will save you some time.

If they are really as overwhelmed as they insist, it really makes me wonder why they don't just put their conditions and exclusions for eligibility out front so they don't have to hear from people like me?

(sorry, I think I have begun to rant, I'll shush now) Anyone else have this experience with Legal Aid?