Attorney insists on 13 -- BUT

[Introuble2008]

hhm --- if we "let the motorhome, etc, go"...they'll sell them for what THEY can get. In this case -- we owe $118,000 on it......and they'd get $60,000 at the most on the market. We'd STILL be responsible for the balance!

ssdsco -- why would my son owing us money (no contract) be an issue?

[HHM]

hhm --- if we "let the motorhome, etc, go"...they'll sell them for what THEY can get. In this case -- we owe $118,000 on it......and they'd get $60,000 at the most on the market. We'd STILL be responsible for the balance!

ssdsco -- why would my son owing us money (no contract) be an issue?

Deficiency balances are not that big a deal...remember, you will be filing BK eventually.

[ssdsco]

hhm --- if we "let the motorhome, etc, go"...they'll sell them for what THEY can get. In this case -- we owe $118,000 on it......and they'd get $60,000 at the most on the market. We'd STILL be responsible for the balance!

ssdsco -- why would my son owing us money (no contract) be an issue?

[Introuble2008]

Let's say for example you gave your son $5k and got nothing of equal value in return. That could appear like you're hiding assets and a fraudulent conveyance. If it was done in the 2 years prior to filing you’d need to include that in your BK filing.

This is just one example. If you want to give the details and timing for your son’s transaction the folks on the forum could give you some feedback.

Son's loan was over 2 years ago. We'll point out how we've tried to sell everything off for the last 2 years...house, motorhome, etc....I don't believe they can even begin to try to say we're fraudulent....especially if my son's filing bankruptcy, too (and they're losing their home) BUT, I could be naive, too.

[HHM]

If you have a documentation for the loan, then the money you loaned to your son should not be a problem...if you do not have documentation, then there "may" be a problem

Keep in mind...BK fraud does not require that you have "bad" intentions. Fraud is a loaded word in our everyday use, but in the realm of BK, the "evil" aspect of fraud is striped away.

[Introuble2008]

Soooo - best we don't say we loaned money to him (no documents). We DID do a lot of work on our house and we could say the money was for hiring people.....and no, I don't have the receipts.

[FreshLikeADaisy]

Introuble, it's a much better strategy for you to provide exactly the info that is requested; don't try to hide stuff because they look at ALL your finances, not just the numbers you provide on the forms. The loan to your son was over 2 yrs old and may not even become an issue; it's just good to be prepared if it does. And yes, the fact that he too is filing bk would tend to support your assertion that it was actually a loan made in good faith and not an asset transfer.

Have you looked over the forms yet to see what will be asked of you? Especially Form 7:

http://www.uscourts.gov/rules/BK_Forms_1207/B_007_1207f.pdf

If you can fill this out truthfully, you should have no problems. If you can't, then maybe rethink bk. The cost of lying (or omitting) and being found out is SO much higher than just telling the truth... Everyone goes into bk worried about one point or another, but most sail through without a hitch. When you get your atty, tell him/her *everything*, even the questionable stuff, and let the atty navigate it for you. Be sure you read everything you sign, so that you're sure no technical errors were made on the actual schedules, etc that are filed, but beyond that realize that for most people bk is a guessing game anyway: a great deal of detail is up to the trustee's discretion, and you just have no idea how that will shake out for you until you actually go in. If you hide things, you maximize your own worry and distress, and put the whole thing at risk.

Sorry if I sound preachy, I do apologize in advance, just... don't omit, and don't lie, for your own sake. Good luck!

[Introuble2008]

Thank you FreshasaDaisy. I've taught my children to NEVER lie and I don't......my response was more as a way to find out what the others meant. In no way was this a fraud....I wouldn't be having major heartburn, highbloodpressure, and stress if I had hidden assets! After having good credit for over 35 years (ever since I got my first job) and having the last 2 causing me to have creditors harrassing me, I find myself in a position I never dreamed of. I don't take it lightly, I cry damn near every day, I wonder if my marriage will last thru this........................I'll read the rules and yes, we'll be totally honest with the attorney.

thank you again

[FreshLikeADaisy]

Introuble, no worries. I didn't have you pegged as a liar -- if you think about it, only honest people bother to ask. And I'm glad you did. I think we ALL have thoughts of hiding or forgetting something, but there's no real need, and that's pretty much why I wrote. Usually there's a quite legal way you can keep most everything.

I myself had perfect credit for close to 20 years, but extended unemployment and disability... well, you know. I know what losing good credit means to you, and how it is you can't NOT take it seriously. I would have paid in blood if I could have, but you know what? In retrospect, I'm glad I couldn't. I'm only sorry I waited so long. I cried every day for months and months too, as I sat in a house that I couldn't sell and was slowly moving toward foreclosure. I wouldn't wish that on anyone.

But it DOES get better. You're in the right place. As my pastor said to me, "Bankruptcy was designed for people exactly like you, who pay their debts and do their best but just somehow get trapped." I argued with him at the time, but oh, he was so right.

Best wishes to you!!! I know it will all work out for you -- easy enough to say, I know, but where you are is actually the hardest part: the period right before you file, when you are face to face with the ugly reality and it is just so overwhelming and no one around you seems to be going through anything near what you are and easy advice abounds... I know, I've been there. But you'll file, and be absolutely amazed at what a burden is lifted once you are in the position of actually being able to DO something -- no matter how hard -- to make it better. God bless you!!!

[Introuble2008]

Welllll, we may have a reprieve! We've had the house on the market for a year. Two sales - both failed. We took it off the market on Friday. Realtor called last night and asked if they could show it -- they have a CASH buyer and they felt it fits their needs! The buyers came by today and love the house, it fits their needs, they're possibly making an offer in next 2 days!!!!!!!!!! The sale will take us out of almost all debt....we can live in the Motorhome until we get totally caught up! YAAAAY (and for those that ask - the MH hasn't sold (no one wants something that gets 7 mpg) and we can live at 1000 trails campgrounds for free or at a friend's place.

[FreshLikeADaisy]

Oh, wow, what wonderful news!!!! Please keep us posted on how it works out!