What To Do About A Family Member?

[Annika]

This is gonna be long, so apologies in advance!

My sister and her (now ex-) husband filed for bankruptcy about 2 years ago because of a ton of credit card debt. I love my sister, but simply put, she cannot manage money, nor can she control her credit card spending. She had cards that even her husband wasn't aware of.

Last year, they filed for divorce, and she moved in with my husband and me. She lives in a small basement "apartment" that we fixed up for her.

Also last year, I got very very sick, and ended up in the hospital three times, and after a ton of tests and procedures, ended up having major surgery. Although we did have some credit card debt, it wasn't excessive, and we'd never been late paying anyone. Our credit was stellar. But with the medical bills, there was simply NO WAY we could make ends meet. We tried for several months, and were just getting more and more behind. So as bad as we hated to, we filed bankruptcy.

While my sister has been living here, she's applied for a number of credit cards. I know for a fact that she has at least four now. She left her purse open on the table, and she's got a billfold with the slide-in credit card holders on the outside, and in plain sight I saw four cards. (Just to clarify, I didn't/wouldn't go through her purse - it was just laying there, open, in plain sight.)

She got three bills in the mail today alone, so it wouldn't surprise me if there are more than four cards. She's digging herself into the same hole as before.

I feel funny saying something to her, because she'll know I looked at her mail (I didn't open it, but it's easy to tell the difference between bills and other mail). But the "Big Sister" in me wants to shake her and ask "What the heck are you doing?!?".

I just find it unbelievable that someone who just got out of a big credit card mess, is quickly getting herself right back into another one.

As for me, I don't want to see another credit card EVER, even though the medical bills are what messed us up, not the credit cards.

Any suggestions as to how I can keep her from making the same mistake TWICE? Should I just butt out? She's 32 years old ... plenty old enough to know better ... you'd think.

[FloridaGirl]

I think this problem with your sis goes deeper than the fact that she can't manage money. She may have a shopping addiction or even a gambling addiction you don't know about. If she does, then she is in need of help, as she can no longer control what she does. Maybe you should just talk to her. Be up front with her about seeing her credit cards in her wallet, and about seeing what looked like bills in the mail. Maybe she will come clean about what is really going on.

[Annika]

I think this problem with your sis goes deeper than the fact that she can't manage money. She may have a shopping addiction or even a gambling addiction you don't know about. If she does, then she is in need of help, as she can no longer control what she does. Maybe you should just talk to her. Be up front with her about seeing her credit cards in her wallet, and about seeing what looked like bills in the mail. Maybe she will come clean about what is really going on.

There's a very good chance she may have a problem with shopping ... or something else ... but I doubt she's the gambling type. I do know that:

• She runs out and buys medicines and vitamins excessively. She's got a bin -- yes, literally a large plastic storage bin -- of medicines and vitamins that probably costed her $500 or more. She's the type that if she hears that "ABC Pill" will help with (insert minor problem), she'll run out and buy it. If her son has a runny nose, she'll go out and buy all new medicine for him, even though the medicine from the last time he was sick is still perfectly good. And if she or her son doesn't like how a medicine tastes, she throws it away. Sheesh!
• She's extremely picky about her hair and skin products, and will spend any amount of money to get the "best" products she can. Even if it means discarding 3/4-full bottles of $20 shampoo that she didn't like after all. (On the good side, she often gives us her rejected medicines and shampoos! LOL!)
• She has spent an excessive (IMO) amount of money on her son's mail order homeschooling books, only to discover, after receiving them, that she didn't like them. So she sold the brand new books on eBay, got less than half of what she paid for them, and ordered some books from a different company ... close to the original price.
• Just this weekend she came home sooo proud of a diamond ring she found at a pawn shop for $30, saying what a great deal she got. Well, it IS a pretty ring, but if you don't have $30 to spare, it's not such a good deal after all.
• Her tax refund of $2,000+ is all but gone, and she was SUPPOSED to use that money as the first couple of months' rent and the deposit on a place of her own. While I don't mind her being here, I hate to see her money -- and her credit -- falling like sand through her fingers.

In other words, she does quite a few things that totally mystify me. Sometimes I'm honestly not sure if she can distinguish between "wants" and "needs".

She makes $7 an hour working at a day care center, slightly less than full time (36 hours a week, I think). If she had extra money to buy all these unnecessary things, more power to her, but she doesn't. I don't know how she's getting approved on all these credit cards, but apparently she is.

My husband always gets the mail out of the mailbox, brings it to me, and I flip through it and pull her mail out of the stack and leave it in her room for her. That's been the routine for the last 1-1/2 years or so. There's been a few times lately that she's gotten the mail herself, even though it's quite a walk to the mailbox ... as if she didn't want anyone to see what she's getting. I did notice a couple of letters from "banks" the other day ... wonder if they were declining her applications.

Anyway, maybe all this is just a coincidence, but I'm very worried about her.

I'll talk to her about it. The more I think about it, the more I can't NOT do anything.

[Genenco]

Well, like an addiction and treatment, those programs are out there for people that WANT help, not for those who NEED it. Simply, she must realize SHE wants to stop her cycle of destruction and such...BUT SHE'S THE ONE TO DECIDE..

You might consider a bit of "Mental Health" consultation..This may be something that she's doing not because she wants to, but that she feels she has to...

My best wishes to you and her...

[FloridaGirl]

^^That's exactly right. Unfortunately, even if she has a problem, she has to acknowledge it and want to get help. Maybe she does, but she is too afraid or ashamed to ask anyone. That's why I said you should talk to her. It might be the turn around for her if she knows someone else is aware that there could be a problem.

[Minnymouth]

If your close with your sister, yes, I would sit her down and tell her that you want to talk to her. Tell her its out of your concern for her, not meddling in her business.....
If she wants to talk - she will, if not, wait till she wants too....

Minny

[Annika]

Update:

I've tried talking to my sister several times over the last few months. It hasn't done any good. She doesn't want to talk about it. In fact, I'm 99.9% sure that she's gotten even deeper in debt.

She got married a couple of months ago, and they've rented a house. Her husband works, and has a fairly decent job, however he's got 2 kids from a previous marriage and pays child support. She's still at the day care, making the same ol' $7 an hour. If they'd mind their pennies, they make enough to get by on, but apparently it's not happening that way.

She's still getting mail at my house, and I'm seeing waaaay more credit card bills than before. It wouldn't surprise me if she's got 6-8 credit cards now. She was also getting collection calls at my house, which caused a small stink. Our phone number is private, and she wasn't even supposed to be giving it out in the first place. My husband works night shift, and they kept waking us up! We just got finished with our OWN bankruptcy, and sure don't want to hear any more collection calls, even if they aren't for us. Grrr ....

What's got me rather alarmed is that earlier today, she wanted me to look up something on the internet for her. She doesn't have internet access at her house, but she needed the phone number for a company called freedompoint.com. I looked it up for her, and noticed that FreedomPoint is a credit card counseling/consolidation service.

Guess that pretty much answers the question as to whether she's in over her head again. huh?

I tried to talk to her again about it, as casually as possible, and as always, she downplayed it, simply saying that she'd combined her credit cards. In her own words: "No biggie", and she changed the subject. (For her, that translates to: "I don't want to talk about it. Leave me alone.")

She's just a couple of years out of bankruptcy, and she can't file again for 4 or 6 (?) years. I guess it's good that she's working with a counseling service, but I don't know a thing about FreedomPoint or whether it's a good company or not.

Wish there was something I could do, but if she doesn't want to talk about it, I can't think of anything. I'm not in a position to help her money-wise, but I don't think that would be a good idea anyway. She obviously has a spending/money management problem.

In the meantime, what can her creditors do to her?

She owns nothing except a small truck that might be worth $2,000 on a good day. Her husband owns a car, probably worth $1,500. They rent their house. Most of their furniture was given to them (hand-me-downs). No fancy clothes. As far as jewelry, she has a few rings, but nothing expensive.

Her husband has lousy credit too, and I'm reasonably sure he's got some medical bills due to some ongoing kidney stone problems. Neither of them has medical insurance, which is a whole 'nother catastrophe waiting to happen.

Any suggestions or thoughts? Does anyone happen to know anything about FreedomPoint?

It sure is hard not to cross the line between being a "concerned sister", and being a "meddling busybody". I feel like she's rolling like a snowball down a steep hill, and there's nothing I can do but watch.

[FilingOnMyOwn]

I would have a good ol fashioned sit down with her. Simply state that her business would not be your business, but because shes living with you, it is. In order for her to live with you, she needs to lead a constructive lifestyle that leads to bigger and better things, and not a destructive lifestyle at your expense. Tell her if she wants to live with you, she is to destroy the credit cards, pay her bills on time, and set some goals as to her own personal future.

[Annika]

Um ... see my previous post ...

She got married a couple of months ago, and they've rented a house.

She's not living here now. We basically told her that she needed to find a place of her own. So she and her boyfriend rented a house and got married. They had a hard time finding anyone who would rent to them, but they finally did.

Her mail is still coming here, as well as the collection calls (although the calls have dwindled down a bit lately).

I didn't really have much (if any) "authority" over her financial situation when she was living here, since she is an adult. She stayed with us, rent-free*, for over 2 years, and couldn't manage to save up a dime.

*She did give us $50/mo to help with the power bill, but there was no "rent" per se'.

Just so nobody thinks I'm a meanie , there were some other things going on at the time (see this previous thread) ... and ... well ... I'll just say that it was time for her to move before things became less-than-friendly.

I was sure hoping that a dose of reality would wake her up. And it may yet, since she has rent and utilities to pay now. But even the bankruptcy she filed 2-3 years ago didn't faze her. Apparently all it did was pause her spending for a couple of months until she could get more credit cards.

I don't "blame" her for making foolish decisions the first time regarding her credit cards. We've all made lousy choices at some point, but most of us learn from our mistakes. Here she is, doing the exact same thing that got her into trouble the first time.

I love her to pieces, and worry about her 24/7, but sometimes I just want to bonk her in the head and ask "What the heck are you doing?!?"

Maybe she'll get herself straightened out.

Hey, I just thought of something. I might write her a letter, and tell her how worried I am, etc. Then the ball will be in her court. I'll have to think on it.

[Minnymouth]

You can only help her sooooo much, after that it's her ball in her ballpark.....

Do have a discussion with her letting her know your aware of the situation because all the collection calls are coming to YOUR house.... and they have to stop!!!

Garnishment will be the next thing on her agenda probably.... cause she sure can't use BK again to bail out........

Make it "perfectly clear" that you are in no position to bail her out - "you can't, and won't - even if you could"...... and now that she's married again she won't be living at your home again....bringing in a husband and kids because they are in such a financial bind. Tell her it "won't happen".....

Some people don't see the light until they are "rock bottom" and their is no other way out except up........ she may have to go to this place in her life!!

It's time she got a lesson in "growing up"..............

Keep us posted on how it is going