My only assest

[AMISLANDER]

I'm ready to pull my hair out over my car. I'm in FL it's the only thing I own and it's the only way I can get to work. My SUV's probably worth somewhere between $6,500 on a bad day & $8,000 on a good day. I'm ready to file a 7 next month...one of my friends who's been through this just told me that when I go before the judge in regards to my car, they might not even take it as it's my only form of transportation. Anyone ever heard of this?

[Minnymouth]

Depends on how much you owe on that vehicle and if you have equity in it or not - whether you keep it or not..... your only allowed to have one worth a certain amount inyour state....

HOw can you afford the gas to go in that sucker right now.....???

They may not bother it depending on Chapter 7 or 13..... usually if you reaffirm they don't bother it..

He, he, evidently your friend knows nothing about bankruptcy - because you don't go in front of a judge - you meet with a Trustee...... very,very seldom will you ever see THE JUDGE....only in complicated cases...

The judge rules - but you won't see him..

Minny

Minny

[AMISLANDER]

The Suv is payed off

I own it totally...that's why I'm trying to figure out if they'll let me keep it

[FloridaGirl]

If you want to keep your car in a chapter 7, you can. But here is the deal. In Florida, you are only allowed to have $1000 equity in a car you own outright. This means, if your SUV is worth about $8000, you can still keep it, but you might have to pay the trustee $7000 dollars in order to do so. If the trustee knows he can sell your SUV for $8000 dollars, it is unlikely he will let you walk out without either giving him the truck, or agreeing to pay him the amount over the exemption. What you should do is get your vehicle appraised. This way you will know exactly how much it is worth. The trustee doesn't look at Kelly Blue Book trade in value, which is a misconception that many people have. He looks at the retail resale value. They want to know what a dealer can get for your truck if they placed it on the lot. Therefore, I hope when you say your SUV is worth $6500-$8000dollars, you are talking about retail value and not what you could get for a trade in.

When I filed for BK, my car was worth $1400 as a trade in. But the resale value was $5000!!! I own my car outright, and I was worried that I would have to pay the trustee $4000! To my surprise, he didn't end up ever saying anything about my car, and I didn't have to pay the difference between exemption and retail value. Maybe you will be lucky too. I'm just thinking that your car is worth a little too much for that to happen.

But yes, you can keep your SUV. The worst that will happen is the trustee will make you pay the difference between exemption allowance and retail value. If I'm correct, they usually take payments, so you won't have to pay it all at once. Maybe your mom could help you with that since she was willing to help with you payments if you did a ch.13.

I just went onto Kelly Blue Book to find out the retail value of your SUV. I didn't know specifics, so I plugged in the base information. The number came back as $12,035. This may not be the exact amount your SUV is worth, and that is why you need an appraisal. If there is damage, or if things don't work ,the value could be a lot less. I hope it isn't worth this much, because it might be an issue for you.

As far as the information I gave you about the trustee wanting the retail value, this is what my attorney told me when I filed.

[bezoar]

It probably varies from court to court, but here, the courts use NADA (way 'overpriced' compared to real world values), and they determine the cars value by taking the NADA retail + NADA wholesale and dividing by 2. If the car has problems, one may be able to reduce this number by bringing in estimates to fix the problems. It is unfortunate that they use NADA, but the overly-inflated numbers serve them, I guess. NADA trade in for one of our cars is $8,500, while KBB & Black Book show $5,500. Anyone that has traded in a car knows they don't use NADA - unless the dealer has marked up the car that they're selling way, way up...

I would be very surprised if the trustee let a vehicle of that value go - considering that tiny ($1,000) exemption. I suppose that you could try - then if it is taken, maybe mom could help you buy a replacement. When the court pays you the $1,000 when it is sold, you could pay mom back for the down pmt...

[AMISLANDER]

Thank you so much for all the thoughts on this!

My attorney had told me to go to Carmax to get an appraisal on the value so looks like I have to drive to Tampa on Saturday and do that. Toyota had told me it needs 2 catalytic converters, which the dealership wants $2,500 to do the work plus under the hood hose work of around $350. This was back in February when I did an oil change. The tires aren't worn but aren't new. My power antenna got stuck in the up position and makes a grrrring noise when you turn on the radio...I know when they have to go into do that repair, it's a big labor charge because you have to take the front side panel off...had it happen before with another car & it was around $1,000. I have two matching dents on each end of my rear bumper (at least they match!) and I backed into a cement pole at a gas station so I have a dent/smush between the left rear light and the bumper...that's probably a good $1,000 because again, the whole panel would have to be replaced. It's got 90,300 miles and is a 2000. At the present, sometimes when I start it, it won't turn over so I don't know if that's a starter problem or I have a loose wire on the battery under the hood.

When I take it for the appraisal, I figure I'm not washing the car or vacuuming the inside. Let it look as trashed as possible? If I have to give it up, you better believe I might back into a few more things before it leaves my life

[bezoar]

It's worth a try. If you can, I'd get some written estimates to document the needed repairs, too.

[AMISLANDER]

Getting estimates

I would believe the biggest estimate would be a "Toyota" one as the dealer always charges more. I wonder if they will charge me to get this estimate or if it is in my file at Toyota from when I last was at the dealership...I'll have to give them a call. Then, there's a place on my island, a few blocks away...looks like I've got some big errands to run.

Thank you!

[Lightning]

If I have to give it up, you better believe I might back into a few more things before it leaves my life

Not a good or ethical thing to do. If you don't want the car, just turn it in.

[AMISLANDER]

Presently I have a lein on the truck from my mom...

which is on my title from last November. I needed cash and she agreed only if I put her on it as a lein holder. Would it be possible to title the car to her because I had not payed back the $$? Would a notorized document suffice for this purpose or does it look shady? I'm reallly trying to do the right thing. I know I messed up terribly; I have been through so much trying to get my life together. This darn bankruptcy is the final step. One of my friends even is considering trading me his 96 Mustang for the truck. Is the timing too close to do something like this? I am like so done with this truck.

How does it work if they take the truck, will they reallly give me 1K back on it? How long does that take?

[StaciMM]

How much do you owe your mother? I've never dealt with a personal lien, but your equity is the difference between what its worth & what you owe on it. Since it happened in the last year, it *might* be considered transfer of property to an insider, but it is very close to a year so not too likely to create a problem?

If the time frame (property transfer to an insider) isn't an issue, that helps your case I think. If the trustee were to take it & sell it, he would have to pay your mom back, give you $1k and only get the remaining. The more difficult the process, and the less he gets out of it, the better for you...

I'm curious to hear anyone else's thoughts...

[AMISLANDER]

I had to borrow money to pay up my bills/rent

I borrowed $5K...paid up my rent and car insurance for 6 months. I don't have any paperwork on it except my title with her as a lienholder. I haven't been able to repay it. I know she wants to be repaid. And she doesn't want me to lose my truck either. So I'm wondering if I sign the truck over to her now, will that raise a red flag? The way things are, I can't pay her back anytime soon.

[StaciMM]

You'd probably be better off leaving it as is. Signing over property would be a red flag. As it is, after the lien, you have equity of $1500-3000 (based on the estimated value you mentioned less the $5k) and $1k of that is exempt. Considering the repairs needed, it would likely be too much trouble for the trustee to bother.

You should be covered, and hopefully the lien is close enough to a year old that it won't be a problem. I'm not even sure that it would fall under 'transfer of property to an insider' as you didn't transfer the property, but borrowed against it.

[bezoar]

If you actually recorded the lien AND it appears on your title, you're probably in good shape. If you can't find any paperwork that reflects the agreement between you and your mother, you might have her construct a written, notarized statement regarding her claim on the vehicle, just in case your trustee wants a little more proof as to what it is all about.

Did you list this debt/lien w/ mom as the creditor on your BK petition?

[AMISLANDER]

I just picked up the phone and dialed REAL FAST!

Thank you for this "heads up!"

Called my lawyer's office and told the secretary to make sure that the lien on the SUV is listed on my bankruptcy petition and I want to see all the paperwork before it goes out. She said I have to come in a sign it. I can put together a document and get it notorized in regards to the money I borrowed from my mom. I do have documentation of paying my rent for six months as well. This might save my ride?