Animals!?

[dingdong]

The BK trustee is looking out for your creditors. If all of your assets are protected by exemptions, they can't be touched by the TT.

As far as expenses, IF your allowed expenses exceed your income and you have negative disposable monthly income, or very little, those issues come into play when determining whether you pass the means test and your schedules I and J. ( expenses and income calculations).


So if the TT thought by selling your livestock, there would be money available not covered by exemptions to pay at least partially some of the debt owed to creditors, they may force the sale of the livestock.

If you used horse/livestock care as an expense on your schedules, the TT would probably not allow it ( at least I am assuming -in regards to the animals not being used as a means of income)

But since most debtors do not use horse care as an allowable expense, and most likely wouldn't even list it anywhere on the schedules, then it most likely doesn't come into play. The TT would have a hard time telling millions of debtors, that having a pet is a hardship. I am sure that there are a lot of debtors out there that pay for pet care, and although having no pets may free up some income ( feed, vet bills, general care) can you imagine the issues if every TT said ("get rid of your pet, you can't afford it". That just isn't what they do. The look for money for creditors. If you have a million dollar racehorse, sure they will want you to sell it, but a trail horse or a hobby horse, not worth the effort on the TT part.

In a CH 13, it may be different, because you are paying back debt over time and the expense may have an effect on your budget, but I have no experience with CH 13.


Basically the TT looks for money/assets to repay creditors with. Determines whether you are within means of filing under certain chapters, and whether you have disposable income to repay your debt.

Hope I 'splained that correctly! Course, as always, I could be wrong.

[HHM]

Pets are not normally a problem.

But horses...hmmmm

If the trustee objects, you take it before the BK Judge. You basically plead that the most fair and humane thing todo is allow the expense. The horse cannot be sold (the few horse people I know can't give them away...at least not to anyone that wants to keep the horses alive) and it was not congresses intent to allow animals to die for the sake of a persons creditors.

[floridian]

bravo!

[Inthestorm]

You're not a horse person, I guess. They say there is a "horse gene." It may be true! Once you bond with one, and he/she carries your weight around for a while and does what you ask...there is NOTHING to compare this with!!! They are awesome, amazing creatures!!! They don't necessarily "show" love like a cat or dog, but they give it in other ways. I own them and I work with them, and there is nothing like it...nothing.

[Recessionist]

Two flea bitten cats for sale, cheap. New owner must be willing to feed cats expensive specialty food which will promptly be regurgitated on a favorite sweater. (Ok ok ok - I love 'em. They might be worth $6.98 for the pair.)

Good luck with your horses. The idea about the vet is brilliant - your trustee does not want to have to become an instant expert on equestrian values, and may be glad for the help, who knows? In everything I have read on this board and elsewhere, honesty is your best policy. Don't sell one for less than it is worth, but do get honest values on them. In this economy NONE of what any of us own is worth what we wish it was.

[Inthestorm]

My last post was responding to Mickeysfriend, but for some reason it bumped way down past some others. Don't know why.

[dingdong]

You're not a horse person, I guess. They say there is a "horse gene." It may be true! Once you bond with one, and he/she carries your weight around for a while and does what you ask...there is NOTHING to compare this with!!! They are awesome, amazing creatures!!! They don't necessarily "show" love like a cat or dog, but they give it in other ways. I own them and I work with them, and there is nothing like it...nothing.

I have the horse addict gene, passed it on to my kids, passed down from my dad.

Definitely had a burning desire to be a part of the horse world since the beginning of ( my) time.

[Horse of Course]

We had our 341 meeting about a month ago and no one said a word about my daughter's pony, our two Golden Retrievers, and our two cats. I wouldn't worry unless the horse is worth a lot of money. In these bad times, most horses aren't worth a lot of money.

[Brighterdays]

I dont know if its dishonest, but i am not even listing my two dogs. Its none of their damn business and they are both fixed so that cuts the $$ breeding factor out. As i said before, they are like my kids. I would hate to think what would happen to the sheriff that tried to take them away from me. I named one Smith aNd the other Wesson. LOL just kidding, Its woody (after osu great woody hayes) and abby(no idea, g-friend named that one).

[francis]

Thank god for animals!!

I went through chapter 7.the animals where listed on the schedule of personal property.But not exempted.The trustee never mentioned a thing about them.I have cats,dogs and a very old horse.So unless they are an avenue to make you money.For races or shows.I think youll be ok.Thank goodness they dont take them.They get us through the rough parts of our lives.

[KatInVa]

Horses are pets each one special and different just like dogs and cats.
I also have a horse, he's 14 years old and all tho he priceless in my eyes he a gelding and I'm sure not worth much.
I also work with horse rescues and right now horses are being abandon right and left.
Maybe get some horse rescue groups to write a letter to let them know how big the problem is and how worthless the poor big fur-kids are! Hate that word worthless but you know what I mean (Value wise)

And show them articles like this:

http://www.cnn.com/2009/LIVING/03/22/homeless.horses/

If you can't afford board can you ask a friend to keep your horse in exchange for babysitting or something?
There's ways to make a little money under the table too, I let someone use my horse trailer last weekend to move their horse and he gave me $100. cash.
I let him set the price wow>That will feed my horse for 2 months.
If you keep your horse at home ask farmers if you help them put hay will they pay you in hay.
Ask stable owners if you can clean stalls in exchange for board or get pay.
I know stables who need people bad to clean stalls!
They have horses with rich owners who will never need to even think about BK.

[limage]

Horse of Course, what value did you use when you listed your pony's value for your BK? I am about to file very soon and I orginally told my attorney $1500, but after reading this thread, maybe I should put $1. He is actually worth a lot (he is a stunning dressage horse), but I could NEVER sell him. I have a friend that is a vet that could help and write up a value for me.