Hard Inquiries on Credit Report by CA's

[beachymama]

I am getting several hard credit inquiries on my credit reports (all three). These are the types of inquiries that are "bad" and Experian is indicating that I authorized these inquiries, which I did not.

Who are these people?

CA/J.A. CAMB
COLLECT AMER
NCB MGMT

Anyone know? Should I just dispute these now? Or wait until after bankruptcy?

[Ifonly]

I have a sneaky suspicion that somewhere in the 15 page, read with a magnifying glass, credit card agreement, there is probably a clause that states..."in the event of default, yada, yada, blah, blah, cc holder grants permission for us to run their credit, including our agents, blah, blah"...something like that.

I had them too and I thought about challenging them but what would it really do? They probably have the above which makes it legit and even if they didn't, I would spend a lot of frustration to have my score go up to maybe 535?

If one of the mods know for sure re: above, that would be great.

[dingdong]

You can try putting a security freeze on all three of your CR, sometimes it is effective in eliminating hards.

Have you already filed?

Placing a hard after notice of BK can be considered continued collection activity and you might be able to threaten them with sanctions and have them removed that way.

Some people might disagree, but it might be an effective way to get them off, especially for something small like an inquiry,they won't want the hassle.

[albacore44]

dispute it

I think I would file a Dispute. If it comes back positive from the reporting agency, Then i would write a letter demanding to see the document you signed allowing the disputed to run your credit. in this day and age of Identity theft, I don't think the agency would fight you on this and I doubt they would produce any documentation.

[biotechsolution]

I am getting several hard credit inquiries on my credit reports (all three). These are the types of inquiries that are "bad" and Experian is indicating that I authorized these inquiries, which I did not.

Who are these people?

CA/J.A. CAMB
COLLECT AMER
NCB MGMT

Anyone know? Should I just dispute these now? Or wait until after bankruptcy?

If you debt was sold to a collection agency before you filed they can pull a hard inquire on your credit report. If this was after you filed, dispute it and threaten the collection agency with violations of FCRA.

[Rick9972]

All inquiries boil down to permissable purpose (PP). Assuming that a CA has an account that actually belongs to you. They have the PP to do a hard pull on your Credit at least twice per year. They have PP to do as many soft pulls as they wish. It is a very grey area if a creditor is allowed to do a hard pull every month. (While I have not looked for it specifically, I have not ran across any court case that addresses this.)

Next issue is that unfortunately inquiries "are not" collection activity. The act of looking at someone's credit report is not taking action. Activity requires an action. Credit reporting can be a collection activity.

Basically the situation is that if you have a CA creeping around your CR. If they own a legitimate account of yours, there is not much you can do about them, until discharge.

[dingdong]

I do not believe a CA can pull a hard after filing. And it can be construed as continued collection activity, for what other purpose would a CA have by pulling a hard after filing then to aid in collecting on a debt?

They are pulling hards to find info etc to assist in collecting on that debt, they are not doing it to assess your credit worthiness or check your scores or to see your DTI to possibly give you a CLI or CLD. ( which would be PP by a creditor)

They are attempting to collect and using the info found on your CR ( new address,phone # etc)

[Rick9972]

I do not believe a CA can pull a hard after filing. And it can be construed as continued collection activity, for what other purpose would a CA have by pulling a hard after filing then to aid in collecting on a debt?

They are pulling hards to find info etc to assist in collecting on that debt, they are not doing it to assess your credit worthiness or check your scores or to see your DTI to possibly give you a CLI or CLD. ( which would be PP by a creditor)

They are attempting to collect and using the info found on your CR ( new address,phone # etc)

I am not saying you are not correct in what is happening, I am saying you cannot do anything about it. This is because you cannot prove intent.

The law for Permissable Purpose specifically allows credit pulls for review. Their defense is that they are pulling your credit for review to determine if your finacial circumstances have changed. Your defense that it is after filing does not float because BK's get dismissed sometimes.

The courts have been very consistent on the definition of "collection Activity". "To be considered collection activity the debtor must be asked to pay." The one major exception to this, where the courts have split is on the subject of "credit reporting". The majority of courts have reached the conclusion that even though no demand for payment is made, the reporting of the debt is a collection activity. A significant minority have went the other way, staying with the strict definition that a demand for payment is required.

Thus I would have to stand with my belief that until discharge there is nothing you can do about it, except grind your teeth and call them names.

I will admit that I know very little about BK law, but I do know Collection law fairly well and will try to pass that along. The thing that makes collection law so interesting is that it is constantly evolveing. Thus if you have something recent proving me wrong I would love to see it. Consumers need all the help they can get.

Thanks

[dingdong]

Here is how I view the CA hard issue within the scope of the BK stay.

When the stay is invoked, all collection activity must cease, period, unless a creditor is granted relief.

At any other time, a CA would have PP to place a hard for account review, but given the absolute protection of the stay, they cannot do anything that is construed as collection activity.

Once they are properly notified of BK, whammo, no more collection activity.

And since posting to a CR is considered collection activity, if they update your CR during that time w/o listing the debt IIB, they are attempting collection, which I understand ( and I could be wrong) is why creditors update accounts IIB upon notice of BK, not after discharge. It is for their protection so they don't violate the stay.

See this:

http://www.newyorkbankruptcylitigation.com/index.php?s=edny

"Continuing to report a discharged debt as due and outstanding after bankruptcy is a violation of the US Bankruptcy Code, says the U.S. Bankruptcy Court for the Middle District of Florida.
The case? In re Fox, 3:05-bk-12267 (Bankr. M.D.Fl). Here, the court relied heavily on two of my cases, Russell v Chase Bank USA, NA (In re Russell), 378 BR 735 (Bankr. EDNY 2007) and Torres v. Chase Bank USA, NA (In re Torres), 367 BR 478 (Bankr. SDNY 2007), for the propositions that
[w]hen a creditor falsely reports unpaid balances which are stayed or discharged by a bankruptcy, it impermissibly attempts to collect that debt in violation of the automatic stay . . . and the discharge injunction . . ."

The case involved a prepetition debt due to Navy Federal Credit Union. I am glad to see that the Court chose to follow the sound logic of the Torres and Russell courts, though it always concerns me when I see a new case come out on this topic.

So following that theory, a hard, after filing, can be considered continued collection, as would a subsequent pull after discharge. The CA has no PP to pull.

[kenshirley]

At this point in life I don't care who looks at my credit ratings.
I don't have any ratings worth using and I am very close to discharge.
I will check mine to make sure that all accounts were included in the BK after some time and that's all we care about at this point.

[HHM]

Big picture, hard inquiries are not that big a deal.

[dingdong]

Big picture, hard inquiries are not that big a deal.

I agree,usually only a 3 point (if that) reduction in your score, but they could be a nice little source of ammo when trying to negotiate a deletion of a negative TL.

And if you are sitting at just below a 620 score for a mortgage, it could make a big difference in financing costs or getting approved for a certain mortgage product if you get a recent negative TL or two deleted by the creditor by hassling them with violation issues.

I have had two negative TL deleted by using methods that basically make them believe you are going to be a thorn in their side unless they fold, especially on a debt discharged in BK which they have no hope of ever collecting on.

I am not generally worried about inquiries, but if I can get a result I want by using the FDCPA, I really have nothing to lose by attempting and possibly a gain in score. So the benefits outweigh the costs in my situation.