Monthly Disposable Income.....

[liz417]

Meoops, I would recommend you talk to your attorney 1st, find out why s/he thinks you should be in a ch 13. I was in the same situation over a year ago, I didn't know HOW I was going to come up with a "payment" to fund a ch 13...I was in the negative every month! As "startingover" stated, yes, I have to interview 6 more attorneys to find the "right one"...don't get yourself "stuck" in a plan that is going to fail....find the right attorney the 1st time around!!!

Good LucK!!!

[meoops]

My expenses she listed are the allowed ones from the National Standards. We live in NE Ohio.

My home is worth $102,000.00 and I owe $101,000.00 since the homes in my area value dropped. We are current on the payments except we are late almost every month by 2 to 3 weeks. We pay $922.00 a month which includes out insuance and taxes. On the housing allowance by the IRS Housing and Utilities Standards is only $742.00. Could that be a problem?

My car I owe $6600.00 and the Kelly Blue Book amount from my lawyer says it is worth $7100.00. We are current except we are late almost every month.

I have my wedding set worth $450.00, a gun worth $150.00 and my furnishings are all 6 to 15 years old.

On our paperwork from the lawyer (she used Best Case Bankruptcy forms) under Subpart C: Deductions for Debe Payment #50, she has "projected average mothly Chapter 13 plan payment at $614.00 but under Monthly Disaposal Income she has -$527.80. Is the $614 our total debt we want reduece divided by the 60 month plan cause if you multipy $514 by 60 mojths you get $36,830 which is approx. what we owe besides our home.

Does any of this make sense to you? I am so confused....

[meoops]

Oh by the way...my attorney said we needed to file 13 since our income was $1500.00 over the allowed amount.

[LuciluS]

Meoops:

take Liz advice and meet with your Attorney and tell her you do not have monthly monies to fund a Chapter 13. Ask your Attorney (a) why she will not file a chapter 7 Now even though you are over Ohio's Standard Median Income or (b) if you can wait the 5 months until your income is below the Median Income since your dh's income has decreased (will it be 32 hrs. for the next 5 months?). You are allowed to use your actual mortgage payment and other expenses if you have documentation.

I would spend the rest of the day completing this easy Means Test created by a member of this forum, DebStinks. I will list at the end of this post & print it. Then arrange your proof of actual expenses in chronological order (i.e. 12 mths of electric bills, water bills, telephone bills, & etc.) I use a detailed spreadsheet for each month.

Take all this information to your Attorney with a list of questions. This let's her know you've 'completed some homework' lol. Here is the Means Tests:

http://www.johnfire.com/meanstest/wizard.php

Don't let her push you into a Chapter 13 of X number of dollars, because you will have to pay the $ amount each month for 3 or 5 years. Especially since your dh's income has dropped. And is there some reason why you and dh Must file soon? If not, please don't rush your bankruptcy until you fully understand a Chapter 13 or 7 bankruptcy.

Review Liz's posts in this thread as she was able to file a Chapter 7 even though she was over her state's median income.

Luci

[StartingOver08]

Lets just put the cards on the table: there are many BK attorney's out there that simply want to file the Ch 13 when you are over median because they want to take the easy way out and because they want the extra fees associated with a Ch 13 filing.

The attorney you have retained sounds like one of these type attorneys. If you do not get satisfactory answers, get your money back and find a good attorney that is there to represent your interests. You can not make a monthly payment with negative DMI - no matter how creative the attorney becomes with your schedules. That is a plan designed to fail.

[meoops]

Thank everyone! I am taking all your advise and working on the Means Test today. She wants me to "redo" our monthly expense budget as I was too strict with the numbers.

[meoops]

[HHM]

What expenses, in particular, put you over in part 2.

Also, you still need to do schedule I & J to determine, if after accounting for your "actual" expenses whether you have anything left over.

[meoops]

schedule I & J $1000.00 a month...I think that is why she wants me to redo my budget as she has my DMI as -$527.

Also, if I do file 13, when we get bonus checks at the holidays and any future tax returns do we have to sign them over to the trustee?

[HHM]

Tax refunds, typically yes. Bonus, typically not, it just depends on how picky your district is.

[meoops]

The saga continues....

Now for the icing on the cake with my lawyer. I called today to ask for an appt to sit down with her to go over the paperwork for filing. I was told I would need to tallk to the paralegal that prepared it! The receptionist would not connect me with my lawyer but did let me talk to the paralegal. I explained we had questions concerning the filing papers and wanted to discuss them before we signed them

She said I could talk to her over the phone page by page but I assured her I was more comfortable to discuss this in person.

She finally said this Friday......geesh. They have all the money and now all the POWER to make me fill like a loser wanting to beg for so time to discuss this paperwork I do not fully agree with????

I will keep you all informed....please say a prayer for us. We really want to go Chapter 7 since the DMI is in the negative but they want us to go Chapter 13.....I am exhausted.

Thanks everyone.....

[LuciluS]

Now for the icing on the cake with my lawyer. I called today to ask for an appt to sit down with her to go over the paperwork for filing. I was told I would need to tallk to the paralegal that prepared it! The receptionist would not connect me with my lawyer but did let me talk to the paralegal. I explained we had questions concerning the filing papers and wanted to discuss them before we signed them

She said I could talk to her over the phone page by page but I assured her I was more comfortable to discuss this in person.

She finally said this Friday......geesh. They have all the money and now all the POWER to make me fill like a loser wanting to beg for so time to discuss this paperwork I do not fully agree with????

I will keep you all informed....please say a prayer for us. We really want to go Chapter 7 since the DMI is in the negative but they want us to go Chapter 13.....I am exhausted.

Thanks everyone.....

Between now and Friday, go over Every Single Line Item On Schedule I and J.You stated your Attorney used National/Local Standards. You are allowed your actual expenses. For example, your mortgage payment is probably higher. Schedule J is your expenditures. Line #1 is your Mortgage. Whatever number is listed to the left put the Actual Monthly Mortgage and go down the lines & list the 'actual' expense. After you've completed both forms, I would copy them. So when you meet with the Paralegal on Fri., both will have copies & you will be able to go right down the page and tell her these are the actual expenses and you want those used in your Bankruptcy.

I would push for a Chapter 7 IF you are negative in your disposable income. You've already stated your husband's hours have been cut. Therefore, if meeting with Paralegal on Friday & she says No on 7, If it were Me and hubby, I'd wait the 5 months to get below the Ohio's Median Income. Also, those 5 months will allow you to 'find' more expenses, if need be & have funds. For example, we put new tires on both of our vehicles. Our garage door spring broke & we got that repaired. Had A/C problems, fixed that.

Have a question about a specific line item, if you want you may ask the question on this forum or 'Google' it. I've learned so much by just reading posts & using the 'Search' button here. I've also used Google. I usually list the item in question and put my State, Bankruptcy after it. Lots of good info specific to your District/State. There is a Northern District Bankruptcy Court website. I found it by using 'Google'. I also noticed there were some Bankruptcy Court Cases under google. If you have time, search them to see if they would be of any use to your specific bankruptcy needs. Here's the site:

http://www.ohnb.uscourts.gov/

Good Luck

Luci

[meoops]

Thanks for the information and your time. I just wish I understood all this better. Hopefully this will be the last time I will need to file BK as my nerves are shot.

[liz417]

Stay strong and be informed...that helped me with my 1st attorney. He would NOT listen and was insisting on file a ch 13 for me...I felt like I was begging him to look at my actual expenses (I was in the neg too), but he just looked at me like I didn't know what I was talking about! My husband even doubted me (because the attorney was SO strong on his position), my husband would tell me that our attorney "knows the law" and I shouldn't be taking advice from the "internet", etc...

Know your numbers, do the means test (www.legalconsumer.com) and KNOW what you are talking about, don't be intimidated!

Good Luck!

[meoops]

Here's my update after meeting with Paralegal.....

Well, we had our meeting with the Paralegal on Friday. It went better than I thought. The attorney we started off with QUIT THE FIRM and we now have a new one. She came into the conference room with the Paralegal and introduced herself. She seemed confident and assured us she is not going to file a chapter 13 if a chapter 7 would be better for us.

The paralegal went over all the paperwork with us one page at a time and marked what needed to be corrected. The reason they wanted a new budget from us was because the percentages were way under what they said we were allowed by law.

That made us feel good knowing they were trying to show every available expense we could get.

So, we paid the filing fees and by the end of next week the attorney said she will give a call and tell us if a chapter 7 or 13 would be best for our situation.

I feel better now and slept like a baby Friday night for the first time in months.

Also, I found out that our new arrorney will not be going to the 341 meeting with us but another attorney will meet us there....they have 2 attorney's in their firm that attends all the 341 meetings....this means they KNOW the trustees which is good for their clients.

I will keep you all informed. I am so thankful for this web site. Thanks to all that have answered my questions. I hope some of my questions and answers will help others starting this journey.