Weighing the pros and cons...

[OHBOY]

I am now seriously mulling bankruptcy versa not filing.

Here are the facts: My income consists of SS and some occasional IRA withdrawals (mandatory..plus a little extra ). I would be going with chapter 7, married, but filing without my spouse.

My non filing spouses income consists of SS and a pension.

Have a house (homesteaded) with mortgage, and actual value a little less than mortgage amount, but... don't intend to move...

Each have a fully paid vehicle, one is 12 yrs old with about 120,000 miles, the other one 8 yrs old with about 172,000. One vehicle is still titled in one 'OR" the others name...and I am thinking that because of the 'OR' status the title could easy enough (and non fraudulantly) be changed into spouse name only.

Have no other assets..other than the usual furniture ect. and clothing items, (no collections or other valuables).

I am almost 80yrs old and at this stage don't expect my income to change...meaning: don't expect any 'windfalls' (though I am still gullable enough to enter 'Publisher Clearing House' next drawing events...)

Here is what I am mulling: If I file, it will cost me at least $ 1800 to get things going.

There is always the possibility that I could encounter 1 or possibly 2 AP's, which could leave me hanging with additional attorney fees plus maybe even $'s to creditors.

In comparison, what if I just sit back, and let the creditors do whatever turns them on.... with the attitude of : 'hey, go for it...have a field day...'

So what if they got one or more judgements...
So what if they put 'liens' on the homesteaded property (only realestate I have)...

Correct me if I am wrong, but it's my understanding that creditors would get 'squat', the liens can be removed with a notification of 'homestead' if I ever wanted to sell the place...

Plus, since unlike a bk proceeding I believe only I would be held accountable for the debts, and I don't think I would have to go through the mounds of paperstacks documenting my and my non filing married spouses income, bank statements, ect., ect....just mine: end of story...

Would not have to 'chew my nails' wondering what some 'silly/dilly' trustee may have up his/her sleeve, and certainly would not subject myself to AP's...

I realize though that getting one of those cheap prepaid phones is probably a very good idea...

Again, input and comments and thoughts would be much appreciated ! Thanks!

uhh...fogot to mention....yes, for either scenario, I will definately close my bank account and use one of those SS cards

[AngelinaCatHub]

Sound like you have it together. We are in FL also and the homestead laws are certainly good. Now it is my understanding that if they put a lien on your house, it would last forever until the final sale some 20 or 30 years from now after you and your wife both pass. What would you care, unless you wished to leave it to a child. You seem to be collection proof as they cannot come after your pensions or SS. We use Boost prepay phones and they are great. We use the walky-talky part most of the time. It is cheaper. It is certainly an option for you at your age. 'Hub

[HHM]

1. Why do you think you are at risk for AP's. AP's are quite rare and with a little pre-bk planning can be avoided.

In reading your post, it sounds like you are making excuses not to file and overestimating your risk and amount of work. Even if you are collection proof, doesn't mean you are not going to be subject to collection. I think you will find the 1 day of hassle to prepare a BK is much less than the avoiding the hassle of collection (prepaid cell phones, living on cash, etc).

Do you really want to spend the last years of your life living like that or would you rather bring peace and certainty to the debts so you can try to live a normal life. What downside is there, really, to filing in your situation; NONE.

[OHBOY]

We are in FL also and the homestead laws are certainly good. Now it is my understanding that if they put a lien on your house, it would last forever until the final sale some 20 or 30 years from now after you and your wife both pass. 'Hub

Angelina: despite of a lot of reading, I still remain confused as to whether a judgement lien could even be placed on a FL homestead IF I filed a 'DECLARATION OF HOMESTEAD' with the clerks office (not to be confused with 'HOMESTEAD EXEMPTION'-which only serves for realestate tax deduction purpose).

There is no official form for a 'DECLARATION OF HOMESTEAD', however in a ruling/opinion by Charlie Christ (when he was still Attorney General) it was stated that the Court of Clerk can NOT refuse to file such a Declaration.

As such Declaration would be giving creditors official notice that the property is indeed homesteaded, it's my understanding that they than in turn would be violating my homestead exemption rights by filing a judgement lien (related to credit card debts) on my Homesteaded property, and I would think that I than would be able to file a 'MOTION TO AVOID JUDICIAL LIENS TO HOMESTEADED PROPERTY' (....I know there is such a 'thing' throughout bk, just don't know if it's available outside of bk...??

Presently I almost tend to favor not going with bk, HOWEVER... I certainly would like to leave my options open to sell the house (i.e. if my spouse dies prior to my demise) without any liens kicking in at time of sale making the sale impossible.

Read that it could be a problem... not so much as to any liens themselves, but pertaining to the title company being able to issue title insurance with a lien showing ( legal or not).

I have an appt. in the middle of this month with a bk attorney, and I certainly intend to ask these question...probably will not make the attorney all too happy...probably will not even answer that sort of question....

[OHBOY]

1. Why do you think you are at risk for AP's. AP's are quite rare and with a little pre-bk planning can be avoided.

HMM:
much appreciate your input.

As I am at this point beyond ' a little pre-bk planning', there is a possibility of AP's, which prompt me to consider non bk as an alternative in order to avoid those non affordable possibilities to kick in...

As explained in previous posts (different thread) I have large balance transfer made in April (to pay off spouses high interest rate cards..), also a larger cash advance last taken out within same time frame. Had made 4 payments on each before, due to a combination of problems the 'house of cards' collapsed, and I quit making cc payments.

[AngelinaCatHub]

Angelina: despite of a lot of reading, I still remain confused as to whether a judgement lien could even be placed on a FL homestead IF I filed a 'DECLARATION OF HOMESTEAD' with the clerks office (not to be confused with 'HOMESTEAD EXEMPTION'-which only serves for realestate tax deduction purpose).

There is no official form for a 'DECLARATION OF HOMESTEAD', however in a ruling/opinion by Charlie Christ (when he was still Attorney General) it was stated that the Court of Clerk can NOT refuse to file such a Declaration.

As such Declaration would be giving creditors official notice that the property is indeed homesteaded, it's my understanding that they than in turn would be violating my homestead exemption rights by filing a judgement lien (related to credit card debts) on my Homesteaded property, and I would think that I than would be able to file a 'MOTION TO AVOID JUDICIAL LIENS TO HOMESTEADED PROPERTY' (....I know there is such a 'thing' throughout bk, just don't know if it's available outside of bk...??

Presently I almost tend to favor not going with bk, HOWEVER... I certainly would like to leave my options open to sell the house (i.e. if my spouse dies prior to my demise) without any liens kicking in at time of sale making the sale impossible.

Read that it could be a problem... not so much as to any liens themselves, but pertaining to the title company being able to issue title insurance with a lien showing ( legal or not).

I have an appt. in the middle of this month with a bk attorney, and I certainly intend to ask these question...probably will not make the attorney all too happy...probably will not even answer that sort of question....

I believe you are right and here is a good short definition of the laws. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Homeste...ion_in_Florida

'Hub

[DeadManCrawling]

You are correct. File the declaration of homestead with the clerk.

This should stop any chance of a lien. The only exceptions would be court-mandated things like construction liens, tax liens, child support, etc.

If you do this, you may wish to send a copy of this to your creditors, and they will probably not waste their time with that avenue. They will still call, sue, bang on your doors with summons and so on.

But if all of your income is exempt, inform them of this as well. If you are willing to put up with the calls, threatening letters and nuisance, I imagine your plan would work.

[floridian]

ok, tell me more.... im in florida and in the same exemption boat...
if i go to the clerk of court in my podunk town and tell them i want to file such a notice, i will get the usual deer in the headlight look...

can someone tell me exactly how to proceed with the matter, since like you said there are no forms available..

[OHBOY]

ok, tell me more.... im in florida and in the same exemption boat...
if i go to the clerk of court in my podunk town and tell them i want to file such a notice, i will get the usual deer in the headlight look...

can someone tell me exactly how to proceed with the matter, since like you said there are no forms available..

Floridian: yes, that's what I encountered when going to the courthouse...this is where one practically encounters a 'conspiracy of silence'....

FL Statute 222.01 Subsection 1 does state that a person desiring the benefits of the homestead protection MAY file a statement of homestead with the circuit court. The filing is 'discretionary and NOT required to qualify for homestead protection....

As judgements liens in FL are however filed on a 'blanket' basis, I sure like the proactive declaration which in my opinion would let any creditor know "hey, you are wasting your time trying to mess with my homestead exemption"

My project for today is to TRY to find an attorney to help me with this task...really should not cost much...however, if I run into a brick wall I'll wait til the middle of the month when I have an appt. with a bk attorney and make that one of the 'casual' questions....
IF (!!!) I find out anything, I'll let you know...