Concerns about BK attorney justified?

[onthebrink]

I hired a BK attorney a couple of weeks ago. I had an initial half hour or so free consultation. Then had another meeting which included my wife. She charged $300 for this session. I didn't mind because I was after all taking her time. At the end of the meeting we agreed to move forward and discussed her fee for filing Ch 7. She quoted $2500 and said she would apply the $300 toward that. Reasonable enough. She then said she would send over a form for us to fill out so she could calculate if we qualified based on the means test along with the fee agreement. She said this on a Wednesday and said she would send it over the next day. By Monday we had not received the form, so I emailed her. She wrote me back thanking me for reminding her (red flag #1).

She emails over the form along with her fee agreement. The agreement was for doing the means test and her fee for this was $500. She had also referred to this as the retainer fee. Reasonable but confusing. Is it retainer or just to do the means test? (red flag #2)

We filled out the completed form and sent it to her yesterday. She said she would get back to us but not by when. I emailed her first thing this morning asking her to let us know by when we should expect to hear from her. It concerns me that she didn't gotten back to me today with a response about by when she will get us the results. (red flag #3)

She seems competent but when I asked her how complex our case was on a scale of 1 to 10 relative to other cases she has handled, she said a 7. (red flag #4) I still need to get comfortable that she can adequately represent us. Now that she has all of the means test info I am expecting her to tell us what issues we might face if we file for a Ch 7 and I'll have a better sense about her ability to adequately represent/advise us. Her fee agreement says that the fee is only for completing the means test and then anything above this would be beyond the scope of that agreement. I went on the Nolo web site and used their means test calculator. My interest in hiring a BK attorney is to get advice, not to tell me whether or not we qualify based on some test I could do on my own.

Should I be concerned or this reasonable behavior and service level on her part?

[Depressed]

Last consultation I went to, the attorney did it for free right there. It only takes them a few minutes to get a good idea where you're at.

I had another attorney want a $1000 upfront to run the numbers. I'm afraid that they want the money before they tell you they want you in a Chapter 13 plan. (Where they make more money of course.)

I've been qouted $1000 and $1400 for legal fees now for a Chapter 7. Is $2500 normal in your area?

[momofthree]

I agree that $2500 seems high for a chapter 7 case. You may need to provide more details for us though. I'm guessing you're over the median. Is there any other reason you think she may consider your case a 7 on a complexity scale of 1-10? Self employed? A lot of assets? High DMI?

Is she solely a bankruptcy attorney, or does she also provide other legal services?

I do know that bankruptcy lawyers are swamped right now with the economy the way it is and that bankruptcy rarely goes as quickly as the debtor would like it to. Not getting back to you the same day could easily have an explanation. She could have been in and out of court all day or meeting with clients, etc.

[wanabath]

She sounds like a piece of work. I hope you have not paid her a penny. She should have one flat fee and should not be trying to hook you with all this excess.

I had two attorneys try to hit me at $2500. I now have one doing it all for $1000 plus filing fees. Much more reasonable. I felt with the first two, they were sales guys rather than attorneys, and could see I had over $1,000,000 to put in my bk so they thought I would pay them that kind of money.

I would suggest making some phone calls to other attorneys in your area and ask them their fees, and if they say they need to have a consultation first, they are full of it.

[onthebrink]

I had a c-corp that involved investors that we closed last year and that I am trying to restart. I'm worried that this might complicate the filing and that these former investors might find out if I file. She tells me it's not a big deal and that I am over-thinking this. In the absence of information and given that the major implications associated with filing, yes, I am thinking about this over and over again, so I guess I am "over-thinking" it.

[momofthree]

That may explain the higher fee. I know that my attorney (and at least one other that I interviewed) charged higher fees for cases involving a business.

[HHM]

I see nothing wrong with what you described.

Also, you really cannot do a means test in isolation of everything else in a BK. A BK is a "CASE", the entire financial circumstances are important to getting the best outcome. Keep in mind, a BK attorney's role is to represent you in BK and do the BK; it is not to TEACH you the nuts and bolts of the BK. No BK fee is high enough for that

Fees vary wildly. The fact is, many attorneys actually undercharge for their services, (because they are stupid business people). In most areas, any fee under $2000 means you are working with a glorified doc prep service (meaning a paralegal does all the work, and you are simply paying for an attorney signature on the petition.)

[JEM]

In central TX I've been quoted by 4 attorney's anywhere from $2400 to just shy of $3000 for a Chapter 7. Ours is a pretty straight forward simple case from what we've been told. So I guess depending on your area that could be the going rate.

[lalap123]

Wow, I hope I'm not being taken. My attorney only charged around $1600 (I'm in Georgia). So far she is the only one I've seen or talked to, and she will personally be at the 341. Maybe I should be crossing my fingers...

[SleeplessMI]

I paid $2,400 including filing fee for my no asset Chapter 7. I have two incorporated businesses that I'm shutting down, with any assets and expenses rolled into my BK estate. Otherwise it would have been lower. My attorney does nothing but BK but is not a mill (mill=glorified document prep done by paralegals, attorney has limited contact with client).

He handled the Chapter 7 vs. 13 question by asking me questions in the first interview about my income and expenses. He said at that time that he was fairly sure I could file Chapter 7 and we would do our best to pursue this, but he'd need a retainer and all of my income and expense records to say for 100% certain. Which is fair; only the hard numbers can tell the real story. (The retainer would have covered the means test, except I didn't have to take the means test because of the business debt exception.)

In the end it was exactly as he said--I have $110 a month in disposable monthly income, all my assets fit under the exemptions, and we filed my Chapter 7 last week. My calls and e-mails were answered within 48 hours, which I felt was reasonable. He did delay preparing my petition by a week longer than originally agreed because his office is very busy right now with numerous BK filings due to the economy in shambles. For me it was worth the wait because of his skill and the level of service I'm getting. All in all it took three weeks between my delivering all of my paperwork to him (including extensive business records) to filing.

[onthebrink]

Thank you all. This helps put things in perspective.

What is a reasonable turnaround time from the time we submit the information the attorney needs to conduct means test to the time we should get the results and the attorney's recommendation on how to proceed?

Thank you!

[HHM]

No one can really say; generally the attorney should set this expectation up front (that is, how long it will take). 1-4 weeks.

[onthebrink]

Thank you, HHM