Beginning my bankruptcy journey today :(

[ssmdem]

Hardship payment plans are not really that great of a deal from what I have seen so far. Often they will go low, but only for 3 or 6 months tops, then it is back to regular programming. All the while, the interest racks up so you make zero progress. Some will knock the interest to zero, but put you on a payment timeframe that is often the same (or more) than you were paying before.

Yeh, it would really only make a substantial difference on one card (about $200 a month) - but my main thing is that I know bankruptcy is inevitable. I'm considering it since it would put off the calls a little while longer - but I don't want to lock myself in automatic withdrawals because I do plan on stopping all payments as soon as we file or a little before then.

[flyinbroke]

Hardship payment plans are not really that great of a deal from what I have seen so far. Often they will go low, but only for 3 or 6 months tops, then it is back to regular programming. All the while, the interest racks up so you make zero progress. Some will knock the interest to zero, but put you on a payment timeframe that is often the same (or more) than you were paying before.

[ssmdem]

Yes, this will matter. did you let your attorney know about this during your visits? I would meet with one more attorney and tell him\her about this expense. Then, if you are comfortable chose the attorney your comfortable with. I would hate to see you get pushed into a 13 for forgetting about the extra 500.00. If it is a reimbursement then be prepared to show that it is actually leaving your account as a company expense. Being that I have been reimbursed.. depending on your company you can sometimes to make more on reimbursment checks than you actually spent. LOL.. I know I have

No, I didn't tell him. But I did find one more attorney that I want to meet with to see if she might be perhaps a little less expensive. The first one is $2000 plus $350 filing fee - which is fine if he's good. But doesn't hurt to just check to make sure.

I will certainly make sure to include it when I talk to the next attorney and update the original one if we do decide to go with him. We are so borderline right now with being under the means test just based on salary alone. I so want to just qualify with just that instead of having to go through and compute expenses and stuff. If my husband's company just started paying the bill directly instead of reimbursing us (they will - that's not a problem) - I guess I would say just that as the explanation for why the income went away. The mileage - I can't help that - and yes, mileage is more than we actually so it's income - I get that. But trying to keep the salary amount down as much as I can for the next few months - seems so backwards to say since we've been killing ourself for years to make as much as we can. We're close - about $300-$400 close to the limit, and I'm sure when we computed the expenses into it, we'd still qualify for Chap 7 - just don't want to take any chances. We absolutely can't afford to do a Chap 13 - we honestly DON'T have any money left over at the end of the month.

[Mi Bankruptcy]

OH YEH!! Something else I forgot to ask. My husband gets paid (separate check from his paycheck) about $500 in expenses each month. I didn't put this on our form as I've never counted it as income - it's expense reimbursement - mostly mileage, but also cell phone bill and postage used for company, etc. Is this something that should have been counted though?

Yes, this will matter. did you let your attorney know about this during your visits? I would meet with one more attorney and tell him\her about this expense. Then, if you are comfortable chose the attorney your comfortable with. I would hate to see you get pushed into a 13 for forgetting about the extra 500.00. If it is a reimbursement then be prepared to show that it is actually leaving your account as a company expense. Being that I have been reimbursed.. depending on your company you can sometimes to make more on reimbursment checks than you actually spent. LOL.. I know I have

[shark66]

Yes.

Although it likely won't make a big deal in the overall BK situation, any income (especially visible one like a separate check) must be included.

My $0.02 only...

[ssmdem]

OH YEH!! Something else I forgot to ask. My husband gets paid (separate check from his paycheck) about $500 in expenses each month. I didn't put this on our form as I've never counted it as income - it's expense reimbursement - mostly mileage, but also cell phone bill and postage used for company, etc. Is this something that should have been counted though?

[ssmdem]

Well, my meeting went well. I really like this attorney. He answered all my questions and was very upfront about everything. Talked about our options. This is the 2nd attorney we've talked to - the first one I walked away more lost and confused than ever, which is what prompted me to get on the internet and start doing the research. Maybe I got better vibes from this guy because I actually knew what I was talking about now, but he really was a lot more pleasant - the other guy just seemed too arrogant and non-chalant for me.

I asked about purchasing another car now before filing as I had seen recommended. He said that the trustee actually pulled him aside the other day and told him that this is starting to be looked on, and he suggested that I not do it. I told him my concern was the interest rates after bankruptcy and that my 1995 and 2001 model cars just aren't going to last much longer. We were planning to trade them both in on ONE newer model. After looking up the values, he suggested just trading in the 1995 model and getting the new car, then selling the 2001 model after bankruptcy and just applying it towards the loan. He said the trustees around here are basically starting to look at it as hiding assets, so he just didn't suggest going down that road.

We also have a motorcycle that we were currently trying to sell, and he said to definitely wait on that as well. The first attorney never even discussed stuff like this - just kinda shrugged his shoulders. This is why I just feel more comfortable with this guy.

So, long story short - our two options are, after going over a ton of options - if we plan on keeping our home, we could file now as we would fit into a Chap 7 if keeping our home. If we plan to let it go, then we need to wait until late summer when our income level has dropped sufficiently to fit us into the Chap 7. He said as soon as we decide we're filing - no matter when - stop paying the bills.

ONE QUESTION I FORGOT TO ASK THOUGH -- if we decide to keep the home, I'm guessing we should keep paying that one though, huh? I mean, we can't miss those payments while we're in bankruptcy and then catch up after it is discharged - those would need to remain current, right?

He did say, as some others of you have, not to bank on the modification. If we can't make the payment post bankruptcy at the amount it is now, then we need to let the house go. He's not seeing alot of people having luck with the modification - although I do have one friend who was approved with no problems - but again, just not to count on it.

So, running numbers - IF our income stays at the amount it's about to drop to, no way in this world we can make the mortgage payment even without the credit card and rental mortgage payments. If I can find another job shortly making what I was making before, we could do it. NOW, mind you, we'd have a good bit left over each month, but not a bunch. We'd definitely have to save and scrimp for vacations or other "luxuries."

We had stopped my husband's 401K deduction until we could get in a better spot, and we really need to get that started back up again. My daughter will be driving in three years, and she's going to need some kind of transportation. The kids' college funds are set though. And there's always that 27 more years of mortgage payments that we somehow need to knock off the last 10 years early so that my husband can retire when he's supposed to. I know this sounds morbid - but we're both only children, and when our parents pass away, we would get everything - not happening in the foreseeable future, thank God - but this could easily knock off the last 10 years of the mortgage payment though.

In my heart, I really want to keep the house. I designed it myself. We built it ourselves - it's just us to a tee -- unfortunately, the bottom fell out of the housing market! That's the emotional side of me talking though. Rationally, I know this is crazy - let it go, move on, find a rental and save up some bucks for a few years. Then find something affordable, do a 15 year mortgage, and be done with it. There's just so much about it that we'll miss - I love the neighborhood - I love my neighbors (pride is definitely playing a factor) - and we couldn't ask for a better location.

UGH! So much to think about.

[NewPage]

Thank you! I do appreciate it! I think that's the hardest step for me because it means the decision has been made and there's no looking back. Any idea how long I can miss my credit card payments without them doing something - other than the phone calls? How about my mortages?

Well, for me the calls started pretty quickly. Daily. A piece of advice I received here was to get a separate phone line for them. I did that (switched my contact number for the cards to an existing pay-as-you-go phone we already have for my son to use on occasion), but they didn't seem to catch on. Just yesterday I logged into AMEX to look at stuff and it said "we haven't been able to contact you, please update your info". So I bit the bullet and called the number, and the rep said they didn't have that number -- even though it's what showed on my screen. *shrug* So she changed it for me and we talked about the payment plan they could offer (which stunk LOL). They haven't called yet today, and I don't know if that's b/c I talked to someone yesterday or what.

My Dad went through a long period of unemployment last year, and for him the phone rang *incessantly*. He did not BK (got a good-paying job at last) but until he settled with the card companies, they hounded him all the time.

I don't have any mortgage advice though, as we are staying in our house - payment is only $543/month, and the HELOC $165. We could not rent anything that cheaply.

Hang in there!!

[Mi Bankruptcy]

Also, my rental. I'm having a hard time with this one emotionally. We just rented it in February to a lady and her son whose husband had walked out on them. He stopped paying the mortgage, and at the time she approached us, it was three months behind and she just wanted to get out of the house and avoid the ugliness of the foreclosure. She has no income and most likely would get a good alimony check. I have no idea what they became, but her dad cosigned on the lease - and we've had no issues at all with her paying the rent. She spent lots of time crying on my shoulder and it's killing me to think I may have to tell them they're going to have to start over AGAIN! She's paying $1000, which is really more than she can afford and if I'm honest, more than the rent is worth considering she could get so much more house for just $100-$200 more a month. The first mortgage is $800, the HELOC is $350. Obviously, we're losing money every month, but it's better than it sitting not rented at all. What do I do?? Tell her what's going on and just let her stay rent free if she wants and quit making payments?? Take the $1000 and pay the 1st mortgage and the remaining on the creditline - leaving it short $150 every month?? I can't in all good faith, as bad as we need the money, take her rent check and not make the house payment with it.

Well. As soon as you decide to let it go you will stop making payments on the mortgage. You can tell her to stop paying you and she can live there for free until she is evicted. This would be nice for her to save up cash since it takes awhile to foreclose on the houses. I also would not count on a modification. People have had tough times getting modifications.

[ssmdem]

If you are at (or soon will be) $5000 GROSS income, then trying to keep a $2800 mortgage payment seems like an impossible task. Giving up the home would be hard to do I imagine, but being tied to it (in the hopes of a modification) seems like sabotage to your 'new start'.

I agree - it is impossible without a modification. I guess that's why I wonder if I shouldn't try the modification first before filing and taking the "in hopes of" part out of the equation. But, I don't know how long I can go without paying those credit card payments, which I know we're going to have to file to get rid of without them taking some kind of action. If I thought I could just miss them and make the trial mort payments while they made a decision without worrying about the credit card companies making a move, I'd do that. Just unsure what kind of timeframe we're looking at. One is through Citibank, the other through Chase.

[ssmdem]

Also, my rental. I'm having a hard time with this one emotionally. We just rented it in February to a lady and her son whose husband had walked out on them. He stopped paying the mortgage, and at the time she approached us, it was three months behind and she just wanted to get out of the house and avoid the ugliness of the foreclosure. She has no income and most likely would get a good alimony check. I have no idea what they became, but her dad cosigned on the lease - and we've had no issues at all with her paying the rent. She spent lots of time crying on my shoulder and it's killing me to think I may have to tell them they're going to have to start over AGAIN! She's paying $1000, which is really more than she can afford and if I'm honest, more than the rent is worth considering she could get so much more house for just $100-$200 more a month. The first mortgage is $800, the HELOC is $350. Obviously, we're losing money every month, but it's better than it sitting not rented at all. What do I do?? Tell her what's going on and just let her stay rent free if she wants and quit making payments?? Take the $1000 and pay the 1st mortgage and the remaining on the creditline - leaving it short $150 every month?? I can't in all good faith, as bad as we need the money, take her rent check and not make the house payment with it.

[SMinGA]

If you are at (or soon will be) $5000 GROSS income, then trying to keep a $2800 mortgage payment seems like an impossible task. Giving up the home would be hard to do I imagine, but being tied to it (in the hopes of a modification) seems like sabotage to your 'new start'.

[frogger]

Welcome. You'll do just fine.

[ssmdem]

No advice, I just wanted to give you virtual hugs. March was the first time I have ever missed any payments (well, since my young irresponsible years that is) and it is scary. But you'll be okay.

Thank you! I do appreciate it! I think that's the hardest step for me because it means the decision has been made and there's no looking back. Any idea how long I can miss my credit card payments without them doing something - other than the phone calls? How about my mortages?

[NewPage]

No advice, I just wanted to give you virtual hugs. March was the first time I have ever missed any payments (well, since my young irresponsible years that is) and it is scary. But you'll be okay.