There's no shame in BK

[currerbell]

We can't tell our parents/siblings. My parents would actually quit talking to me if they knew. So, yes, there is some shame there. Not exactly the best feeling in the world, but I balance it against the fact that filing BK is, quite simply, the only option and is the best thing for MY family. That makes the shame seem pointless.

[MSbklawyer]

[newbegin]

Very well put, that's exactly my thoughts.
Most are lured into a unknowing, self-inflicted slavery,
until we wake up to find that those corp.'s that so appreciated our excellent credit and years of loyally making every payment with great pride, had turned on us like a rabid animal.

[espo1357]

We can't tell our parents/siblings. My parents would actually quit talking to me if they knew. So, yes, there is some shame there. Not exactly the best feeling in the world, but I balance it against the fact that filing BK is, quite simply, the only option and is the best thing for MY family. That makes the shame seem pointless.

that's right, its YOUR family. So, do what is best for them.

I strongly considered walking from my now 100k underwater home, and didn't want to do it because of extended family pressures. But, that was the wrong appoach I should have considered my future most, because I get up to go to work to pay my bills, and nobody else.

After some back and forth, I am likely going to stay in the house, because a. its going to require another down payment to buy another home, b. I love the house, c. its about the same as renting, d. have a kick ass long term interest rate.

anyway, BK is something that is a smart move if the debt to income ratio is off,

forget about what others think, it doesn't matter.

[freefall]

I'm embarrassed that I filed and have been "hiding" it from friends and family in that its something that's bothering me that I'm not going to bring up unless asked directly. A combination of bad luck and poor decisions on my part caused me to dig myself in too deeply to get out. I don't feel bad that I used a legal means to solve an otherwise unsolveable problem, but feel what I guess is shame for getting myself into the predicament of having no other way out than filing bankruptcy.

the fact that its a public record forever means there's a permanent record of my past mistakes, so its hard to let go of the feelings of regret and shame over the past. But the posts of people who don't feel ashamed or who have gotten over those feelings give me hope that I'll put this in better perspective eventually. I did the best that I could at the time, and have learned a valuable lesson goign through bankruptcy.

Well, if it's any consolation, I don't tell loose associates. Call it shame if you want, but I think it's more a lack of desire to get into details about my life. For me, I'm not ashamed. For me, it was a gift from God. But strategy dictates that telling people what might only make them jealous is not a good idea. Where I work, there are people with 60,000 in student loans outstanding. I paid for my education with mastercard. At the time, I just didn't feel like filling out loan paperwork. I was actually being financially irresponsible by not trying to get the lowest rates for school. Until a few years later that is--when Chapter 7 took it all away. So, it's not out of shame that I don't tell the world my business. It's out of a need for friends at work rather than jealous enemies.

[freefall]

Call me crazy, but perhaps I'm a bit sociopathic. I just feel no remorse at all for defaulting on the good people at Bank of America and Discover. Wait a minute. They aren't people, are they? In my BK, I didn't screw a single person out of a dime. There is no person you can point to who was harmed by my BK. Not one.

Am I indirectly responsible for higher CC interest rates? So what? Let the interest rate go to 100% APR. I pay off my credit cards entirely twice a month, as should any responsible person. If one is in debt and paying interest--it's their own actions that caused that.

Besides. I have not hurt the economy or the U.S. We're out spending money again. We're spending the money we were paying to the CC's. Real people are benefiting because of that. Capital One is benefiting, at least by getting our annual fee. Hell, B of A and Discover would have been better off to re-issue us CCs. They didn't. Their loss. And yet, they are still standing and still paying dividends.

There is no shame in BK. There is only jealousy on the part of those who will not or cannot do it, themselves. It's kind of like an ugly kid in school griping about the immorality of going on lots of dates.

The best thing for the recovery would be if everyone with any debt at all had it erased. And everyone with a mortgage was simply given their house (there's way too many on the market as it is). People straddled with debt and working 60 hours a week to pay massive school loans and CC debt can't do a thing for the economy. They are simply sending their money to banks that would be bailed out or bought out if they should fall.

I really wish they'd loosen up the BK laws to pre-2005. Keeping people in debt isn't helping anything. All it's doing is killing consumption.

[bkinparadise]

I, for one, feel a bit embarrassed about getting in this situation (massive debt and eventually filing for BK). Poor judgment is what got me in this situation. But if it was not for BK, I would not have resolved my stress, anxiety, and of course massive debt that was basically crushing my life around me. If big corporations can use BK to resolve their own bad financial practices then I can also. I don't tell others about my personal misfortunes and even if someone found out out, I would just tell them frankly it is none of their business. Who the heck cares what others think about my own personal situation?

Filing BK doesn't make me a bad person. I'm human just like everyone else here on the forum.

[Brazzy]

There is no shame in BK. There is only jealousy on the part of those who will not or cannot do it, themselves. It's kind of like an ugly kid in school griping about the immorality of going on lots of dates.

Um, I was going to go somewhere with that but I figured people would really take it the wrong way. Let me leave it at the fact that no one is envious of a person who has to go through bankruptcy. If there is anyone to be envious of its people who can live their lives comfortably without having to use their credit. Yes everyone wishes they were debt free, but if any reasonable person had their choice bankruptcy would not be it. Everyone grows up dreaming about being successful and living a fulfilling life. I dont think anyone has "filing for bankruptcy" on their list of life goals.

[onwards]

I'm embarrassed that I filed and have been "hiding" it from friends and family in that its something that's bothering me that I'm not going to bring up unless asked directly. A combination of bad luck and poor decisions on my part caused me to dig myself in too deeply to get out. I don't feel bad that I used a legal means to solve an otherwise unsolveable problem, but feel what I guess is shame for getting myself into the predicament of having no other way out than filing bankruptcy.

May I ask something? please don't feel like I am attacking you, rather I am merely wanting to challenge what I sense are underlying "hidden assumptions" that may be leading you into the emotional response you are describing. These are best summarized by your following words:

the fact that its a public record forever means there's a permanent record of my past mistakes,

Were you truly behaving irresponsibly? did you - well and truly - have enough knowledge and understanding of finances, before accumulating the debt and making those judgments errors, to avoid them? if you filed in the past couple of years, do you truly feel that it is your responsibility to have been caught in the biggest financial meltdown in the history of the modern world? does it really not give you any comfort at all to know - for a fact - that pros with decades of experience in finances screwed up at a scale far, far larger than you are ever likely to get near?

In other words, and this is where the challenge comes from, why do you seem to think that in the topic of personal finances, you have to be both perfect and prescient?

We ALL make mistakes, every day, across a wide range of behaviors and elements of our lives. You know this. Why can't you forgive yourself for what were probably innocent mistakes in this particular area? what makes it so special?

[Logan]

We can't tell our parents/siblings. My parents would actually quit talking to me if they knew. So, yes, there is some shame there. Not exactly the best feeling in the world, but I balance it against the fact that filing BK is, quite simply, the only option and is the best thing for MY family. That makes the shame seem pointless.

Sounds like YOUR better off not talking to your parents!

[Logan]

Um, I was going to go somewhere with that but I figured people would really take it the wrong way. Let me leave it at the fact that no one is envious of a person who has to go through bankruptcy. If there is anyone to be envious of its people who can live their lives comfortably without having to use their credit. Yes everyone wishes they were debt free, but if any reasonable person had their choice bankruptcy would not be it. Everyone grows up dreaming about being successful and living a fulfilling life. I dont think anyone has "filing for bankruptcy" on their list of life goals.

I guarantee their would be people envious of my BK if they are in debt and could end up like me. After several lay offs and alot of bad luck I accumulated too much debt to ever pay off. After my BK I now have NO debt, all the credit I need and now instead of sending large payments that hardly put dents in my credit cards I am saving rapidly for a house, retirement and for security.

Life is great!!! As I have told my wife numerous times...BK is great!!!!

Logan

[pcn]

I think Greed on both sides is the cause of most bankruptcies. Greed on the part of banks luring unsophisticated victims with teaser rates that they jacked as soon as they could. Greed on the part of consumers, who bought more than they could afford to pay off in a reasonable amount of time. We made our mistakes, and the banks helped make the final decision for us. I get tired of the "poor pitiful me" posts, as if people have no control over themselves or their situations.

[Brazzy]

in debt and could end up like me. After several lay offs and alot of bad luck I accumulated too much debt to ever pay off.

Your making my point. No one would choose to be in this situation. No one is envious of someone who went through this. There is nothing pleasant about being in over your head in debt and losing your job. Most people wouldnt wish that on their worst enemy. Now your saying people wish it could be them in this situation?

I understand what your saying in that people all wish they were not in debt. However a vast majority of people who filed for BK went through hell before the relief came. If someone is not in this situation, they arent going to wish that they were. If they are in this situation they can typically file for BK like anyone else. Its not an exclusive club.

[BobMango]

I think Greed on both sides is the cause of most bankruptcies. Greed on the part of banks luring unsophisticated victims with teaser rates that they jacked as soon as they could. Greed on the part of consumers, who bought more than they could afford to pay off in a reasonable amount of time. We made our mistakes, and the banks helped make the final decision for us. I get tired of the "poor pitiful me" posts, as if people have no control over themselves or their situations.

This is the kind of generalization that gets me going. I did not act out of greed. I bought a house I could afford with a reasonable mortgage, didn't run up my credit cards so I could only make minimum payments, had only a single vehicle payment (and put a huge down payment so I had lots of equity in the vehicle,) and saved part of my income every month.

So where did it go wrong? My assumptions. I assumed that my income would stay where it was. I assumed that when my job got sent overseas that I'd be able to find another one in short order. I assumed that having 9 months of living expenses saved up would be enough. All of those assumptions proved wrong in the midst of the perfect financial storm: the real estate and stock market crashing and the economy tanking all at the same time. Had those not all occurred at the same time I would have been able to salvage my position. If Wells Fargo had been more flexible we could have worked out some sort of arrangement and they wouldn't have taken a $50K haircut on my rental property.

So I guess you could say it was greed on my part since I did buy a house that I couldn't pay cash for. I thought I was being prudent since I was spending less than 20% on housing and was adding a good chunk to savings every month. To assume that everyone that files bankruptcy was greedy or intentionally overextended themselves because of their lack of self control is the worst sort of generalization.

[Logan]

Your making my point. No one would choose to be in this situation. No one is envious of someone who went through this. There is nothing pleasant about being in over your head in debt and losing your job. Most people wouldnt wish that on their worst enemy. Now your saying people wish it could be them in this situation?

I understand what your saying in that people all wish they were not in debt. However a vast majority of people who filed for BK went through hell before the relief came. If someone is not in this situation, they arent going to wish that they were. If they are in this situation they can typically file for BK like anyone else. Its not an exclusive club.

I'm separating Bankruptcy from the events that sent me there. I would rather lose my job and go deep into debt than say have cancer, lose a loved one or many other scenarios that are certainly worse than what I went through that wouldn't put you in Bankruptcy.

Bankruptcy alone has changed my life and I am much better off than my peers because of it. I spent 3+ years in the mortgage business and there are plenty of people who make less money than me with quite a bit of debt who will never go into BK. The difference is I will be working to buy toys and have fun and they will be working to pay their bills. I took a week off that was unpaid to go to Europe last week while most people couldn't afford a week without pay and a European vacation.

BK was arguably the 3rd best thing that ever happened to me. It will be the 4th in September when my daughter is born and her life will be much better thanks to BANKRUPTCY.

Logan