Disposable income enough for Chapter 13?

[FoolAndHisMoney]

We flied under the old law, and our 341 was smooth, until the UST decided to file a motion to dismiss for substantial abuse, because the debts were "consumer" in nature. We were well under the median in HI, and all of our expenses were in line with the IRS figures, even though we were under the old law/ We were going to fight but the attorney told us we could fight and lose then end up dismissed...we couldn't handle that at this point, so she got us a bare bones payment deal with the UST.

I think we got singled out in the beginning because we were pro se and had decent income, though still under the median, and the powers that be were looking to crack down in HI.

Anyway, out 13 plan was confirmed in June at $300 per month for 36 months. The UST got 10% or $1080, the attorney gets $2200, and the remaining $7520 got to over $75,000 in unsecured debts...so we're paying about %10 back...should we have had no problem getting a 7, in my opinion, Yes! Were we an easy target...of course...my lesson learned is never go pro se...it paints a huge target on your back.

Oh yes they had to have been picking on you for sure going pro se. While researching the living crap out of bankruptcy cases I never ever heard of a family below the median subject to substantial abuse. Most of our debts are "consumer in nature". They usually only do things like this to high income debtors with unreasonable expenses. I guess this is punishment for filing under old law. I've seen quite a lot of people that filed last October with problems that they otherwise wouldn't have had if they waited and filed under BAPCPA. At least you only have a 36 month plan and not 60 months. The judge probably would have ruled in your favor. The worst thing that would have happened is they would give you 2 weeks to convert to a 13 if the judge granted the UST's motion.

[ConnieS]

DI...........Another aspect

When doing the final "tweaking" on my Scedule J there is another fact that my lawyer pointed out to me. If you show you DI too low or too much in the negative and are hoping to reaffirm on something (we are keeping the house and the car) the trustee may decide you don't have enough income to include those items in your budget and make you give them up. I know everyone here is concerned about the $100 DI, but this is just one more thing to add in to it.

[coma]

We had one attny figure us a $195/mo, 5 yr Ch 13 plan. With what we owe, that won't even pay 10% total, including Trustee's Admin and Attny's remaining Fees.

Trustee's fee of 8.5% and figure in $1500 extra for an attny, on average, we would pay back right at 7% to Creditors. The Trustee would be the winner there.

Probably the reason you wound up in a Ch 13, Coma. It was more about lining the Trustee's pockets than about justice.

I know that now... Hind sight and all that. We really researched before filing, and probably should've went before October, but we put it off as long as possible. So yes, we're lining the trustee and the attorney's pockets, since we wouldn't have needed the attorney if they would have left us alone...it does suck, plain and simple. I am thankful, though, for the 36 month plan, and I'll be getting my master's before this is up, and I really hate to think that I'm going to get my first real, great paying job and have to have all of that go to the trustee...it still won't pay even half off though...

[InLimbo]

u 2 please keep us updated thru this tread! We 2 are over for filing chapter 7 (about 20k) but we are also in the hole every month. Our lawyer is also going to try to get us thru a chapter 7. The only problem arising may be our daughters tution (200.00) we pay mothly for community college. If she drops that, then boom....chapter 13 I do know that we cannot make payments thru a chapter 13, but I don't think the trustees really cares either

[susie]

I have found several errors on my means test and after those are corrected we should be in the negative and have no chance of a chapter 13, but I'll let you know what comes of this. There were some expenses that were just left off, such as payroll deduction for insurance, medical expenses, as well as others, and adding those will make a huge difference.

On another note, it scares me that this was filed with so many errors. I thought attorneys were very precise and detailed.

[Minnymouth]

susie,
It is a "proven" fact that attorneys are in for the money.......... not the accuracy.....

Keep a close eye on your attorney..........

[anonymuse]

Gotta be on top of your case just as if your filing pro se. You are the only one that cares 100% about the successful outcome of your case.

[susie]

Absolutely, and that is why I went over all of it very carefully, but was still very surprised to see all the errors.

[ConnieS]

We have had a rough draft copy of our petition for over a month and I cannot tell you how many mistakes and omitions I have found and had to have corrected. Some may call it obsessive but I go over the form for hours just to make sure every i is dotted and t is crossed. It's your future at stake here and you should be hands on.

BTW!! We are filing on Thursday!

[Jeepy89]

A little update on our progress or should I say lack of....

Trustee filed her report of no distribution of assets 8-4-06
Trustee withdrew her report of no dist of assets 8-20-06 - OH CRAP

Trustee emailed lawyer on 8-10-06 and asked for proof of clothing and food expenses for the 6 months prior to filing - yeah right we keep receipts but luckily I used my debit card for everything so I had my bank statements. But realistically where do they think we got the money for lawyer fees, filing fees, credit counseling fees but by cutting food and gas for 3 months geesh

Trustee now has asked for proof of husbands income since filing and our daycare expenses for the last 6 months.

HMMMM gee how bad to they want to convert us to a Chapter 13 ???

Oh well I am trying not to stress much at this point as I can not do anything to change it but fork over the information and pray every night.

[SinkingFast]

I noted you said you were over the Median, Jeepy.

How much over?? Is it eaten up with Secured Debt payments for house and/or car loans??

How much disposable/mo did your attny file you with??

[Jeepy89]

we were almost 7k over the median income for michigan family of 3

Our means test was negative by 350 bucks but our schedule J we had 2.66 left over each month.

When I stopped at the lawyers office today and they gave me a copy of letter from the trustee requesting info. It also made a statement about us getting a 5000 tax refund for 2005.. okayyyyyyy first of all it was only 3000 hello but it was a one time event due to the fact that my stepson had lived with us and we got to claim him plus the business loss that offest my income -- not gonna happen again since the business is why we ended up filing in the first place. So I called them back to talk about that - I want them to explain that it's not normally that way.. So we will see what else they ask for now......

[susie]

Well, our 341 is in the morning. We are in the hole by about $350 on the means test but show disposable income of $66 on schedule J, and we are only negative on the means test due to large medical expenses. We are 12K over the median.

[SinkingFast]

It does kinda seem like you are getting the PUSH, Jeepy!

Like your Trustee is looking for any way possible to scrape up the income necessary to push you into a Ch 13.

I'd think your previous Income Tax returns would prove that this years refund was not typical.

Good Luck holding your ground.

[miss puff]

Just wondering how the 341 went Susie.